Nec 440.14

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BY1956

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Good evening.

I am wondering about NEC 440.14


There is no reverence that I can see that refers back to NEC 110 and (a) (b) (c) ext.

440.14 which specifically address HVAC&R disconnects say accessible and in sight.

I have seen much debate that this is all it needs to be and as much that says it should first conform to 110.

Like I said, I see no reference at 440.14 to refer back to 110

I see a lot of problems maintaining 36 inches clearances when you factor in larger condensing units due to higher SEER ratings added to local ordinances that require as much as a 8 foot set back from the property line for anything.
 
Can you be more specific to what part of article 110 you are referring to?
Article 100 has a definition of "within sight". The disconnects can even be mounted on the compressor just as long as it doesn't block access to servicing of the equipment.
 
The rules in 110.26 apply. They do not have to be referenced in Article 440.
90.3 Code Arrangement
This Code is divided into the introduction and nine chapters, as shown in Figure 90.3. Chapters 1, 2, 3, and 4 apply generally; Chapters 5, 6, and 7 apply to special occupancies, special equipment, or other special conditions. These latter chapters supplement or modify the general rules. Chapters 1 through 4 apply except as amended by Chapters 5, 6, and 7 for the particular conditions.
Chapter 8 covers communications systems and is not subject to the requirements of Chapters 1 through 7 except where the requirements are specifically referenced in Chapter 8.
Chapter 9 consists of tables.
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Thanks. They don't have to be referenced may be the case. But to take away from the confusion, they probably should. I read on the Internet somewhere that by mounting a disconnect inside the condenser which is alright, in most cases would mean you can't because of the distance 110 states. I don't have a code book handy and have no idea what chapter 440.14 is in.
 
Bjenks said:
Can you be more specific to what part of article 110 you are referring to?
Article 100 has a definition of "within sight". The disconnects can even be mounted on the compressor just as long as it doesn't block access to servicing of the equipment.
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Sorry, should of wrote 110-26
 
But to take away from the confusion, they probably should.
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No...the code users need to understand how to use the code. If the code had every cross reference listed it would have to have thousands of pages larger than it is now.
Don
 
110.26(A) working space only applies to equipment requiring examination, adjustment, service, or maintenance while energized. If the A/C disconnect is not an overcurrent device 110.26 would not apply since it is not worked on while energized and does not meet the other reequirements of 110.26
 
RICK NAPIER said:
If the A/C disconnect is not an overcurrent device 110.26 would not apply since it is not worked on while energized and does not meet the other reequirements of 110.26
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I personally agree with that statement, an unfused disconect is not likely to require examination, adjustment, servicing, or maintenance while energized


However I think it is without question up to the local AHJ/Inspector to decide what 110.26 applies to.
 
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Bob is correct that you have to ask the AHJ, as it is my opinion that disconnects, fused or not, are likely to require examination while energized. You can look at some previous discussion on this issue here, here, and here.
Don
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
as it is my opinion that disconnects, fused or not, are likely to require examination while energized.
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Don, just for the sake of discussion.

Do you really feel they will require examination?

Or is that a choice made by some workers.

You can always shut it off at the supply.

Why do you feel the CMP used the word require if they really meant any?
 
RICK NAPIER said:
110.26(A) working space only applies to equipment requiring examination, adjustment, service, or maintenance while energized. If the A/C disconnect is not an overcurrent device 110.26 would not apply since it is not worked on while energized and does not meet the other reequirements of 110.26
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I agree with you. I guess I see confusion all over this and this is why I don't agree that one should just "need to understand how to use the code".

A disconnect does not need to be serviced. Pulling the disconnect does not make it safe. It is still hot. If you are going to open it, you should kill the power at the panel feeding it.


I got into a discussion about this with an electrician in regards to a heat pump disconnect and he knew basically nothing about servicing the device but had strong opinions on the subject. I remember it was a old sparky that once told me charging a heat pump with an amp meter was adequate.
 
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Bob,
Don, just for the sake of discussion.
Do you really feel they will require examination?
Or is that a choice made by some workers.
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Require does not always mean "mandatory" or something that you must do because some rule or authority says that you have too. It can also mean "to call for as suitable or appropriate". As I have stated in other threads the first step that many troubleshooters will take is to check the for voltage in the disconnect. This a suitable or appropriate step. Checking for voltage is examination, in my opinion, and therefore requires 110.26 work space.
Don
 
Don

I disagree about the norm of checking line voltage at the disconnect first. I have been a HVAC instructor in the Air Force and a licensed HVAC contractor for 23 years. A HVAC guy will commonly pop the top or side off of a heat pump or refer unit first and check line and low voltage in the unit, THEN if there is no line voltage he will check the disconnect.


Because these $10 disconnects have become so ratty and small, it is not in the best interest of a service technician to open one them with out killing the feed from the panel first.
 
I disagree about the norm of checking line voltage at the disconnect first. I have been a HVAC instructor in the Air Force and a licensed HVAC contractor for 23 years. A HVAC guy will commonly pop the top or side off of a heat pump or refer unit first and check line and low voltage in the unit, THEN if there is no line voltage he will check the disconnect.
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It really doesn't matter which happens first, if you are checking the voltage in the disconnect then 110.26 applies. If I am checking the unit, I will open the cover that is the easiest to open to make my first voltage check...in most cases that will be the disconnect.
Because these $10 disconnects have become so ratty and small, it is not in the best interest of a service technician to open one them with out killing the feed from the panel first.
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If the disconnect is not suitable for use as a disconnect, that is counter productive as the only reason the code requires the local disconnect is so the tech can kill the power to the unit.
Don
 
I absolutely agree with Don.

Not all techs are as well trained as some others. I have myself witnessed many times and also myself tested at the disconnect to see if there was voltage and what value it was.

How many tech usually have access to the building?...not many, that is one of the reasons for the disco in the first place.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
I absolutely agree with Don.

Not all techs are as well trained as some others. I have myself witnessed many times and also myself tested at the disconnect to see if there was voltage and what value it was.

How many tech usually have access to the building?...not many, that is one of the reasons for the disco in the first place.
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I would say most if not all have access to a building they are working on. In fact we don't work on a building with out being able to enter. It would be totally irresponsibles by the nature of how a HVAC system works to not start at the thermostat when working on HVAC equipment. A seasoned HVAC tech would know that responding to a service call with out egress into the building is a wasted trip. Not having access to the building has absolutely nothing to very little do with why there is a disconnect near the unit
 
If you believe a disconnect reqiures servicing while energized than every wall switched controlled appliance such as a garbage disposal would need to comply with 110.26
 
Rick,
If you believe a disconnect reqiures servicing while energized than every wall switched controlled appliance such as a garbage disposal would need to comply with 110.26
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That is exactly what this code section requires. The CMP refuses to accept any reasonable limits as to what this section applies to. You can't install the kitchen countertop receptacles that are required by Article 210 because to do so creates a violation of 110.26. This is why you have to ask the AHJ. The code section is very poorly worded and it cannot be applied as written...each AHJ has their own idea.
Don
 
Houston, we may have a problem. :-? My state may be about to drop legislation that local inspectors can not render opinions that appear to be as abstract as the NEC on this subject and others. In other words the law maker is trying to create legislation that says ambiguous opinions are not grounds for a turn down on an inspection. The Inspector has to site the NEC code.
 
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