Nec 725.45

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erickench

erickench

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Brooklyn, NY
The above NEC section describes a rule for tapping a feeder for Class 1 circuit. It states:

Class 1 circuit conductors shall be permitted to be tapped, without overcurrent protection at the tap, where the overcurrent device protecting the circuit conductor is sized to protect the tap conductor.

My question is this: Do the rules of NEC 240.21(B) apply for this type of circuit?
 
erickench said:
The above NEC section describes a rule for tapping a feeder for Class 1 circuit. It states:

Class 1 circuit conductors shall be permitted to be tapped, without overcurrent protection at the tap, where the overcurrent device protecting the circuit conductor is sized to protect the tap conductor.

My question is this: Do the rules of NEC 240.21(B) apply for this type of circuit?
Click to expand...

what is the tap for
 
erickench said:
The above NEC section describes a rule for tapping a feeder for Class 1 circuit. It states:

Class 1 circuit conductors shall be permitted to be tapped, without overcurrent protection at the tap, where the overcurrent device protecting the circuit conductor is sized to protect the tap conductor.

My question is this: Do the rules of NEC 240.21(B) apply for this type of circuit?
Click to expand...

No the rules in 240.21(B) do not apply.

725.3 gives us a list of other applicable articles and 240.21(B) is not among them.

Also if you read 725.45(B) is specific in stating that the overcurrent protective device must be sized to protect the tap conductors.

Chris
 
raider1 said:
No the rules in 240.21(B) do not apply.

725.3 gives us a list of other applicable articles and 240.21(B) is not among them.
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Chris you lost me, don't all the rules in Chapters 1 to 4 apply unless changed by Chapter 7?

90.3 Code Arrangement. This Code is divided into the
introduction and nine chapters, as shown in Figure 90.3.
Chapters 1, 2, 3, and 4 apply generally; Chapters 5, 6, and 7
apply to special occupancies, special equipment, or other special
conditions. These latter chapters supplement or modify the
general rules. Chapters 1 through 4 apply except as amended
by Chapters 5, 6, and 7 for the particular conditions.
Click to expand...

:confused::confused:
 
iwire said:
Chris you lost me, don't all the rules in Chapters 1 to 4 apply unless changed by Chapter 7?



:confused::confused:
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Not neccessarily, 725.3 specifically states that only the sections of Article 300 referenced by Article 300 shall apply to Class1,2 and 3 circuits.

Now I was going from memory and thought that 725.3 applied to all of Chapters 1 though 4 but the wording only applies to Chapter 3.

As far as 240 goes, 240.4(G) says that overcurrent for remote control, signaling, and power limited circuits shall be permitted to be provided as specified in 725.45, which modifies the general rules of 240.

IMHO tapping a feeder for a Class 1 circuit should be done in accordance with 725.45.

Chris
 
raider1 said:
I don't see anything in 725.45(B) that requires the feeder to be a Class 1 circuit.

Chris
Click to expand...
First words...
(B) Feeder Taps. Class 1 circuit conductors shall be permitted
to be tapped, without overcurrent protection at the
tap, where the overcurrent device protecting the circuit conductor​
is sized to protect the tap conductor.
Click to expand...
 
Smart $ said:
First words...

​
Click to expand...

Yes, but IMHO that means that we can tap Class 1 conductors from a standard feeder, not that the feeder must be a Class 1 circuit.

For example I can tap a Class 1 motor control circuit from a motor feeder if I put an overcurrent device in the Class 1 circuit that protects the condutors at their ampacity.

Chris
 
raider1 said:
Yes, but IMHO that means that we can tap Class 1 conductors from a standard feeder, not that the feeder must be a Class 1 circuit.

For example I can tap a Class 1 motor control circuit from a motor feeder if I put an overcurrent device in the Class 1 circuit that protects the condutors at their ampacity.

Chris
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I understand your viewpoint, and would agree 100%... if the wording corresponded. The subsection says, '"Class 1 circuits shall be permitted to be tapped, ..." This phrase is regarding the conductor supplying power, not the conductor receiving power.

Additionally, a motor feeder isn't an Article 215 feeder... its an Article 430/440 "feeder", otherwise known as a motor-related branch-circuit... and the control circuit tap would fall under 725.45(C).

Note how subsection (C) is worded. Now if subsection (B) said something to the effect of tapped from a feeder, I would completely agree with you.
 
Alright let's look at another case now. Suppose you had control circuit transformer tapped from the motor branch circuit not the feeder. Wouldn't the secondary be considered Class 1? I mean after all the system is now separately derived.
 
erickench said:
Alright let's look at another case now. Suppose you had control circuit transformer tapped from the motor branch circuit not the feeder. Wouldn't the secondary be considered Class 1? I mean after all the system is now separately derived.
Click to expand...
Depends on the transformer's spec's...???
 
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