NEC Art 700.1 & 700.6

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Re: NEC Art 700.1 & 700.6

Per 700.1 fine print note #3, I do agree with Bob that the communications system is an emergency system, and I think the doors would be too. But a pencil sharpner would not. The fire chief may be the AHJ, but he may also not be the AHJ.
 
Re: NEC Art 700.1 & 700.6

I do have a problem understanding what equipment in Fire station belongs to essential load. Is it only a lights? If only lights then battery powered lights cover 10' for emergency need.
If other equipment (like doors, communication) is required to be on emergency than I think separate ATS is required to power this load and the rest of the building would need separate ATS. If Fire station requires Standby power back-up then essential load can share the same raceway with normal load. If fire station require Emergency back-up than essential load can not share the same raceway with normal load.
I can not find requirements for Fire station. I red NFPA, NEC, Building Code and there is no single word about Fire station.

If somebody can help would be appreciated.
 
Re: NEC Art 700.1 & 700.6

Snjeza
You will not find an article in the code listed for Fire Stations. The code can not list every type of building.

Steve
701.2 states that the legally required Standby systems are designated by those entities listed
such as state, municipal etc.
The FPN under 701.2 lists some of the loads for legally required standby systems. If this is a legally required system, which I think it might be, then those parties requiring this standby system should be making the decision as to what loads should be declared as emergency loads.
IMO the emergency lts, door openers,
comm equipment, and other load a designated would be on the list. I see no reason for 2 ATS at this location.

[ June 09, 2004, 11:30 PM: Message edited by: bob ]
 
Re: NEC Art 700.1 & 700.6

Snjeza

Looks like your getting as much information as I did, about this question...On the 10 or so Fire Stations we have done, we done one of the following:

1. Use battery ballast for emergency lighting and then you can use the generator for whatever loads.
(Which I have done).

2. Use two ATS, which is what we did.... The generator manufacturer can supply the generators with one or two circuit breakers. (One for each ATS). (Also which I have done).

3. Get special permission from your AHJ...
Also which I have done - Only in California at Owners request)

I used -
NEC 700.1 Emergency systems are those systems legally required....

NEC 700.6 D Transfer equipment shall supply only emergency loads. Also read last sentence of comments in handbook.

Hope this helps...
 
Re: NEC Art 700.1 & 700.6

I see, you had different stations also. In some you had batteries for lights in some ATS for lights. Did I understand correctly?
 
Re: NEC Art 700.1 & 700.6

It did help and thank you very much. But I will ask you more questions.
What about fuel supply for your generators. Did you specify in the spec Emergency generator or Standby Generator?
 
Re: NEC Art 700.1 & 700.6

Steve66 What is the definition of an emergency load? I know what the code book says in the article you refered to but unlilke in health care there is no definition of what is the emergency load. My point to the pencil sharpner on the Cheif's desk was better said by someone else when they said "if this is a legally required standby system then those that say it is will decide what is emergency" Again if it is the fire chief and he says the pencil sharpner that that is an emrgency item and SHALL be supplied.
 
Re: NEC Art 700.1 & 700.6

I originally thought emergency loads applied to egress lighting only. However it does not indicate that in Article 700. It simply states emergency loads. Now I side with the view that electric garage door operators and communication equipment within a firehouse can also be considered an emergency load thus be fed from the same automatic transfer switch. Of course without a definition from the AHU this is just my opinion but I would like to have it cleared up once and for all. :)
 
Re: NEC Art 700.1 & 700.6

Originally posted by frank cinker:
I originally thought emergency loads applied to egress lighting only. However it does not indicate that in Article 700. It simply states emergency loads. Now I side with the view that electric garage door operators and communication equipment within a firehouse can also be considered an emergency load thus be fed from the same automatic transfer switch. Of course without a definition from the AHU this is just my opinion but I would like to have it cleared up once and for all. :)
Click to expand...
:(
Frank, how do you suggest clearing this up without talking to the AHJ in any given area? :( :(
 
Re: NEC Art 700.1 & 700.6

I have also done 3 fire stations in the last 2 years,all have had gensets,all were 'optional stand-by',as mentioned earlier,battery backup units were used for exits and em lights etc.

Any and all items after that including a/c units,door operators,recpts in every room,lights in all sleeping rooms,halls,offices,kitchen appl's,refer's, just to mention a few were on the Gen.
 
Re: NEC Art 700.1 & 700.6

Forgot to mention, all of the fire stations had to have 2 fuel sources. Just natural gas was no good,they all had deisel fuel tanks built-in under the genset's and natural gas too!

frank
 
Re: NEC Art 700.1 & 700.6

dlhoule,

You are probably correct. The final say would go to the AHJ to determine what lighting and/or power load would be considered emergency in their specific jurisdiction. Maybe that is why the NEC isn't 100% definitve.
 
Re: NEC Art 700.1 & 700.6

Benaround
2 fuel sources: Natural gas and diesel???? Did you mean natural Gas and LP? Or did you mean they have redundant gensets; one diesel and the other natural gas fired?
 
Re: NEC Art 700.1 & 700.6

OK, here's the deal. Well in CA anyway. I would imagine it's not much different elswhere.

Aside from Health Care facilities, the loads to be emergency or legal standby are set forth in the building code.

The local Fire Marshall as a type of AHJ could (in theory) make it an ammendment or something like that (has to be official, not word of mouth) and then it would fall under 700 or 701 depending how the Fire Marshal worded it.

If not, it's Optional Standby the whole way.
 
Re: NEC Art 700.1 & 700.6

Ramdiesel3000,

That wouldn't work to well would it! Gas and LP for two of them,and I know one was diesel with a good size tank under it. The fill pipe had to be 10' from the SES,I found that out during inspection,luckily I had 10'-2" .Better lucky than smart sometimes.

As far as never losing natural gas,ask someone from an earthquake zone if they know anyone!!

frank
 
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