NEC Code Question

[MBroussard]

The NEC states that a bare copper conductor can be installed in a raceway with insulated conductors. My question is, does the NEC have any restrictions on a Solid Copper Bare conductor being installed in a raceway with insulated conductors?

 

[iwire]

310.3 Stranded Conductors. Where installed in raceways, conductors of size 8 AWG and larger shall be stranded.

Exception: As permitted or required elsewhere in this Code.

 

[Sierrasparky]

The NEC states that a bare copper conductor can be installed in a raceway with insulated conductors. My question is, does the NEC have any restrictions on a Solid Copper Bare conductor being installed in a raceway with insulated conductors?

Welcome to the forum!:happyyes:

May I ask why the concern?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Since the op has 2014 as his code cycle then look at 310.106(C). It is as Bob quoted but they moved the section to 310.106 back in the 2011 code. In the 2008 it was 310.3

 

[iwire]

^^^ Thank you! ^^^​

 

[MBroussard]

Welcome to the forum!:happyyes:

May I ask why the concern?

I have a DOT Engineer that insist on installing a solid bare conductor with insulted conductors on his street light projects. This has created a installation nightmare!!! One of my pay items for an up coming project is 3,545' 2" PVC [2#2, 2#4, 1#2 Bare Solid Ground].

 

[petersonra]

I have a DOT Engineer that insist on installing a solid bare conductor with insulted conductors on his street light projects. This has created a installation nightmare!!! One of my pay items for an up coming project is 3,545' 2" PVC [2#2, 2#4, 1#2 Bare Solid Ground].

is this even under the nec?

 

[Cavie]

I don't know about LA but FDOT requires #6 insulated Green ground. Never herd of anyone requiring solid. I would fight that requirement. Yes, install nightmare. Also more expencive. FDOT follows NEC when it suits them.

 

[Smart $]

310.3 Stranded Conductors. Where installed in raceways, conductors of size 8 AWG and larger shall be stranded.


Exception: As permitted or required elsewhere in this Code.

Since the op has 2014 as his code cycle then look at 310.106(C). It is as Bob quoted but they moved the section to 310.106 back in the 2011 code. In the 2008 it was 310.3

Seems to me that 310.106(C) is rendered moot by 250.118(1) for the EGC.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Seems to me that 310.106(C) is rendered moot by 250.118(1) for the EGC.

Are you saying that one section in Chapters 1-4 cannot modify another section in Chapters 1-4?

 

[Smart $]

Are you saying that one section in Chapters 1-4 cannot modify another section in Chapters 1-4?

Absolutely not. In fact, quite the opposite. I'm actually saying they can.

This sentence...

250.118 Types of Equipment Grounding Conductors. The equipment grounding conductor run with or enclosing the circuit conductors shall be one or more or a combinationof the following:
(1) A copper, aluminum, or copper-clad aluminum conductor. This conductor shall be solid or stranded; insulated, covered, or bare; and in the form of a wire or a busbar of any shape.

...meets the requirement of this conditional clause...

310.106 ...

(C) Stranded Conductors. Where installed in raceways, conductors 8 AWG and larger, not specifically permitted or required elsewhere in this Code to be solid, shall be stranded.

...thereby allowing solid EGC's to be 8AWG and larger in raceways.

Not saying I recommend it... :happyno:

 

[infinity]

Absolutely not. In fact, quite the opposite. I'm actually saying they can.

This sentence...

...meets the requirement of this conditional clause...

...thereby allowing solid EGC's to be 8AWG and larger in raceways.

Not saying I recommend it... :happyno:

They're required to be stranded unless permitted or required to be solid. Street lighting isn't one of those conditions where it would be explicitly permitted or required.

 

[GoldDigger]

I do not see the first section as necessarily providing an override to the 310 section.
You could just as well argue that 250.118 allows you to use black insulated wire for the EGC since it just specifies insulated and does not specify a particular color.
250.118 says that solid is one option and 310.106 qualifies that by stating that solid can only be used in a raceway when smaller than #8.
If the EGC is run with the other conductors, but not in a raceway, then the prohibition against large solid wire does not apply at all.

This is almost as difficult as trying to decide when the Federal government has preempted state regulation in a particular area rather than just supplementing it.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Absolutely not. In fact, quite the opposite. I'm actually saying they can.

This sentence...

...meets the requirement of this conditional clause...

...thereby allowing solid EGC's to be 8AWG and larger in raceways.

Not saying I recommend it... :happyno:

I totally disagree with that assessment. The first part says nothing of the size but does mention solid. The other section says not over #8 unless required by other sections of the code. Where in the first section does it say it is required to be solid. It gives a choice but 310.106 limits that choice to smaller than #8

 

[texie]

I totally disagree with that assessment. The first part says nothing of the size but does mention solid. The other section says not over #8 unless required by other sections of the code. Where in the first section does it say it is required to be solid. It gives a choice but 310.106 limits that choice to smaller than #8

I agree. If we use smart$ logic, then we could also put busbar in a raceway.

 

[infinity]

I think that we can all agree that we would not want to try and pull a #2 solid conductor into a 2" PVC.

 

[Smart $]

I totally disagree with that assessment. The first part says nothing of the size but does mention solid. The other section says not over #8 unless required by other sections of the code. Where in the first section does it say it is required to be solid. It gives a choice but 310.106 limits that choice to smaller than #8

The "other" section says unless specifically permitted or required. The "first" section says the EGC shall be solid or stranded. The "shall be" is always considered denoting a specific permission or requirement, is it not?

Yes, a solid or stranded option is provided, but I see nothing in the "other" section which prohibits one from choosing the solid option.

 

[Smart $]

I agree. If we use smart$ logic, then we could also put busbar in a raceway.

And we can put a busbar in a raceway, such as in a wireway, for example. :happyyes:

So are y'all saying that can't be done???

 

[kwired]

I have a DOT Engineer that insist on installing a solid bare conductor with insulted conductors on his street light projects. This has created a installation nightmare!!! One of my pay items for an up coming project is 3,545' 2" PVC [2#2, 2#4, 1#2 Bare Solid Ground].

What is the nightmare the solid bare conductor or the "insulted" conductors?

Why are they insulted anyway?

 

[Sierrasparky]

I think that we can all agree that we would not want to try and pull a #2 solid conductor into a 2" PVC.

That would be a pain, That would seem a bit rediculous to me.