NEC - Outdoor Kitchen

[Cybatrex]

NEC 100 - Kitchen: An area with a sink and permanent provisions for food preparation and cooking.

The kitchen is outdoors and it does have a kitchen inside the dwelling unit. This kitchen has a rear wall that is attached to the house so there is no space between the items. I was told that because its outdoors that all the rules "don't apply" such as outlets within 24", 2 countertop circuits, etc.

Here is the layout.

If the rules don't apply, can you explain why they don't here?

If they do apply, it follows all the rules that a kitchen would, correct?

 

[augie47]

I can see some debate about application of Art 220 considering the wording of 220.12, but it meets the definition of a kitchen so, IMO, Art 210 applies.

 

[Little Bill]

We have had this topic before and I believe the consensus was "if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, ....."

 

[infinity]

The argument is that the outdoor kitchen is not part of the dwelling unit.

210.52(C) Countertops and Work Surfaces. In kitchens, pantries, breakfast rooms, dining rooms, and similar areas of dwelling
units, receptacle outlets for countertop and work surfaces shall be installed in accordance with 210.52(C)(1) through (C)(5).

 

[Cybatrex]

I can see some debate about application of Art 220 considering the wording of 220.12, but it meets the definition of a kitchen so, IMO, Art 210 applies.

Thank you, I'm finding its quite a controversial thing but to me it seems very clear according to the definition.

 

[Cybatrex]

The argument is that the outdoor kitchen is not part of the dwelling unit.

When its attached and not separated by space, wouldn't it still be considered part of a dwelling unit

 

[winnie]

Looks like a kitchen to me. _Who_ is saying the rules don't apply?

Jon

 

[Cybatrex]

Looks like a kitchen to me. _Who_ is saying the rules don't apply?

Jon

The boss. I told him I disagreed but he said he has done it before. I gave my input but wanted to know the answer for myself for the future.


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[winnie]

_I_ believe the space counts as a residential kitchen.

If your boss knows that the local AHJ does not consider the space a kitchen, then I would suggest _as a design choice_ that you design (and upsell to the customer) an installation that meets the spirit of the kitchen rules if not the letter.

In particular I would make sure there are as many receptacles associated with the counters as would be found in a normal kitchen, however if the space is not 'technically' a kitchen I might fudge the position requirements to improve weather resistance.

-Jon

 

[d0nut]

In particular I would make sure there are as many receptacles associated with the counters as would be found in a normal kitchen, however if the space is not 'technically' a kitchen I might fudge the position requirements to improve weather resistance.

I completely agree and think that too much of the time people get focused on the "code minimum" requirements. There is a lot of money being spent on this outdoor kitchen. If I built it and had no countertop receptacles, or could only use one larger power appliance like a fryer because all the receptacles were on one circuit, I would be pretty upset. I wouldn't be enjoying my outdoor kitchen. Every time I used it I would be reminded how my cheap-butt electrician built it as cheap as he could and now I can't use the space how I want.

Show the value of what you are proposing to the customer and get paid accordingly.

 

[infinity]

When its attached and not separated by space, wouldn't it still be considered part of a dwelling unit

IMO part of the dwelling unit versus detached from the dwelling unit matters. The latter does not need to comply with 210.52.

Dwelling Unit. A single unit, providing complete and independent living facilities for one or more persons, including
permanent provisions for living, sleeping, cooking, and sanitation.

 

[petersonra]

When its attached and not separated by space, wouldn't it still be considered part of a dwelling unit

Let me ask you this, is a detached garage part of a dwelling unit? How about a backyard shed?

Is an attached car port part of the dwelling unit?

My opinion, is all three are, but none of our opinions actually matter. It is what the AHJ thinks that matters.

 

[macmikeman]

So I guess that the outhouse in the back by the coconut tree needs a 20 amp circuit and a gfi outlet if there is a hose bib attached to it? Cause after all, some may decide that constitutes a sink...................

 

[petersonra]

So I guess that the outhouse in the back by the coconut tree needs a 20 amp circuit and a gfi outlet if there is a hose bib attached to it? Cause after all, some may decide that constitutes a sink...................

Bathroom. An area including a basin with one or more of the
following: a toilet, a urinal, a tub, a shower, a bidet, or similar
plumbing fixtures.

It would be a bathroom if it had a basin AND any of the plumbing fixtures mentioned. A typical outhouse has no plumbing fixtures.

 

[Cybatrex]

Let me ask you this, is a detached garage part of a dwelling unit? How about a backyard shed?

Is an attached car port part of the dwelling unit?

My opinion, is all three are, but none of our opinions actually matter. It is what the AHJ thinks that matters.

Excellent point. Well it looks like I need to call down there and find out.


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[Cybatrex]

So I guess that the outhouse in the back by the coconut tree needs a 20 amp circuit and a gfi outlet if there is a hose bib attached to it? Cause after all, some may decide that constitutes a sink...................

If it’s an outhouse with a hose, I’d consider that a bidet so it needs the GFI / 20A


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[petersonra]

I think this would be considered a damp location thus triggering the requirement for weatherproof covers for the receptacles.

 

[K8MHZ]

The argument is that the outdoor kitchen is not part of the dwelling unit.

I don't think it matters. I read it as:

In

1) Kitchens
2) Pantries
3) Breakfast Rooms
4 ) Dining Rooms
5) Similar Areas of Dwelling Units

So, to me, ALL kitchens are part of the requirement.

 

[infinity]

I don't think it matters. I read it as:

In

1) Kitchens
2) Pantries
3) Breakfast Rooms
4 ) Dining Rooms
5) Similar Areas of Dwelling Units

So, to me, ALL kitchens are part of the requirement.

An external structure is not in the dwelling unit. You're quoting the 210.52 requirements for within the dwelling unit.

 

[Hv&Lv]

Doesn’t the NEC spell out all minimums?
If it doesn’t call it out it’s not a requirement IMO.

I see this as you are required to meet 225 only.