NEC - Outdoor Kitchen

[Fred B]

Is this a true mostly enclosed room? Like a screened in enclosure, or is it a true out of doors, and exposed to the weather?
If it is truly on the outside of main structure and exposed to weather 210.8 requirements would be involved regardless of proximity to the sink. However regarding 210.12 requirements to insist on AFCI on the outside receptacles can be argued not required on exterior of building. From my thinking if the space falls into requiring GFCI as a result of being exposed to weather it is not a room that requires AFCI. I would however suggest that installation of adequate receptacles for countertops use in food/ drink preparation just from a practical point of view.

 

[Cybatrex]

Is this a true mostly enclosed room? Like a screened in enclosure, or is it a true out of doors, and exposed to the weather?
If it is truly on the outside of main structure and exposed to weather 210.8 requirements would be involved regardless of proximity to the sink. However regarding 210.12 requirements to insist on AFCI on the outside receptacles can be argued not required on exterior of building. From my thinking if the space falls into requiring GFCI as a result of being exposed to weather it is not a room that requires AFCI. I would however suggest that installation of adequate receptacles for countertops use in food/ drink preparation just from a practical point of view.

It’s under an overhang but it’s in the back with a pool cage.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[petersonra]

This would be classified as a damp area IMO so NM would not be allowed.

 

[Cybatrex]

Doesn’t the NEC spell out all minimums?
If it doesn’t call it out it’s not a requirement IMO.

I see this as you are required to meet 225 only.

But doesn’t it meet the definition of a kitchen?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cybatrex]

This would be classified as a damp area IMO so NM would not be allowed.

That’s correct. There will be a wall placed there over the wires making it a dry location. Still would need the flaps that cover the outlet but not an in use cover.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mikeames]

Let me ask you this, is a detached garage part of a dwelling unit? How about a backyard shed?

IMO No. Its a separate structure. You could get a new service on a detached garage if you wanted to

Is an attached car port part of the dwelling unit?

IMO Yes. Same structure.

FWIW, I would wire it like a kitchen. If the AHJ calls it a kitchen then the AFCI would also be a requirement as ridiculous/stupid as that may be. Why call it a kitchen for one requirement but not the other? After all the conductors are still part of the dwelling?....eye roll....

 

[winnie]

IMHO your pictures do not show an outdoor space. The wall might be open, but the ceiling and the wall finish both scream inside.

-Jon

 

[Hv&Lv]

But doesn’t it meet the definition of a kitchen?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It does, but you already have to have GFCI because it’s outside. All your concerned with is counter circuits and spacing really.
Everything else is a moot point.
as far as spacing goes it’s for all kitchens in a dwelling unit. The outdoor kitchen doesn’t meet the definition of being in a dwelling unit. It’s “outdoors“ in article 210.

That being said it would be easy to meet spacing, making the in use covers look worth a crap in a nice outdoor kitchen is going to be the challenge.

Just saw picture. Looks like patio wiring to me

 

[petersonra]

It does, but you already have to have GFCI because it’s outside. All your concerned with is counter circuits and spacing really.
Everything else is a moot point.
as far as spacing goes it’s for all kitchens in a dwelling unit. The outdoor kitchen doesn’t meet the definition of being in a dwelling unit. It’s “outdoors“ in article 210.

That being said it would be easy to meet spacing, making the in use covers look worth a crap in a nice outdoor kitchen is going to be the challenge.

Just saw picture. Looks like patio wiring to me

I don't think you need in use covers. It is a damp area not wet.

 

[Hv&Lv]

I don't think you need in use covers. It is a damp area not wet.

Ok, then a covered when not in use cover..

 

[kwired]

IMHO your pictures do not show an outdoor space. The wall might be open, but the ceiling and the wall finish both scream inside.

-Jon

Yes, once he posted pictures that was my first thought as well.

I think not only does the 2-4 foot spacing rule apply to counters, but the 6-12 rule also applies to the rest of the space. And like it or not as worded AFCI protection should also be required.

 

[Cybatrex]

This is a similar property to show you what I mean by outdoors, its on the wall to the left, very similar. Difference is there's a fireplace but were removing that.

 

[winnie]

Okay, I see what you mean by outside. It is outside of conditioned space, and the floor is made of waterproof materials, and there is lots of moisture exposure.

-Jon

 

[kwired]

This is a similar property to show you what I mean by outdoors, its on the wall to the left, very similar. Difference is there's a fireplace but were removing that. View attachment 2557138

is that skeleton type structure over the pool glass panels? (really clean if it is) I can see the far boundary being open. But I also don't see this being all that much different than what one may have for space about an indoor pool in further north climates where they still want to use that space in the winter months. Are the kitchen cabinets and appliances of a design that they are intended to be in outdoor wet/damp locations? This picture looks more like the cooking appliance (that we can see) is basically an outdoor grilling appliance though where the earlier photo was more of a indoor looking appliance.

I'd have no issues wiring such a kitchen with standard devices and wall plates unless I know it will be hosed down frequently