nec question

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wirenutt

wirenutt

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pittsburgh,pennsylvania
i am an electrician with 14 years experience doing residential and light commercial work. 2 days ago i met with an union represenative to explore the oppertunity to work in the local union. i was given an exam and one question was spacing receptacles in a residential dwelling , there was a picture of a room with one door. i don't recall the dementions , but using the 6 / 12 rule i concluded there should be 5 receptacles and he said i was wrong. he opened the code book to 210.52. he said the spacing is 6 foot between outlets and i said twelve. i see his point about streching a lamp cord if it is the middle of two outlets, but i have always gone twelve foot. every electrician i know does to. are we all wrong including our inspectors?
 
210.52(A)(1)
Receptacles shall be installed so that no point measured horizontally along the floor line in any wall space is more then 6ft. from a receptacle outlet.
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that means that you could be standing between two outlets, 6' to the left one and 6' to the right, which would be 12' in between.

he said the spacing is 6 foot between outlets and i said twelve
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You were correct.
 
nec question

i am aware of the six foot but he argued i was wrong about the twelve foot and said the inspectors are wrong too. i think if you go every six foot , the walls are going to look like swiss cheese
 
210.52(a)(1)

210.52(a)(1)

Says that no point along the floor line of any wall space is more than 6 ft apart. Which is 6' from an opening and 12' apart after that.
 
wirenutt said:
i am aware of the six foot but he argued i was wrong about the twelve foot and said the inspectors are wrong too. i think if you go every six foot , the walls are going to look like swiss cheese
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cost of wiring the house is gonna go sky high, especially if all these outlets gotta be TR. A 10' x 15' bedroom w/ 20 outlets
 
tryinghard said:
What does 250-52(A)(1) mean, it is not worded in a way to allow 12' between receptacles?? :roll:
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As far as I read it, it does. But the first receptacle must be within 6' of the door. Then you go every 12' after that, and the last one must be within 6' of the door as well.

Edit to add:

6footrule2.jpg

This quick little scribble isn't exactly to scale, but you get the idea.
 
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480sparky said:
As far as I read it, it does. But the first receptacle must be within 6' of the door. Then you go every 12' after that, and the last one must be within 6' of the door as well.
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But that is not what is says, 210-52(A)(1) never says 12' it also never says stand in the middle and go 6' each way. It literally says, "Receptacles shall be installed so that no point...in any wall space is more than 6' from a receptacle outlet.

Thanks of the picture though
 
tryinghard said:
But that is not what is says, 210-52(A)(1) never says 12' it also never says stand in the middle and go 6' each way. It literally says, "Receptacles shall be installed so that no point...in any wall space is more than 6' from a receptacle outlet.

Thanks of the picture though
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So pick a spot along the wall.... any spot.

Are you within 6' of a receptacle? If you placed them 6'-12'-12'-12'.....-6', then you will be.... "no point in any wall space is more than 6' from a receptacle"

If your receps are exactly 12' apart (not hard to do along a long wall with 16" OC studs), then as soon as you are over 6' from one recep, you are within 6' of the next one.

Edit to add:

Let's modify my drawing. I added 5 points along the wall to demonstrate this:

6footrule3.jpg

The red & gray spots are fine, because the receps are no more the 6' away from the door.

The brown is closer to one recep than the other, so it's within 6' as well.

The green is closer to the recep on the right, so it's within 6'.

But the blue seems to be right smack in the middle of the top two receptacles. If those receptacles are exactly 12' apart, the blue spot must be within 6' of one or the other. Although the receps are 12' apart, any point on the wall will be within 6' of a receptacle.


And you though word problems in school were tough!
 
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I won't say union vs non-union , one way or the other. But this union rep. is in the need of an education. Maybe you should send him here to the forum. Maybe they get paid by the outlet and the more the merrier $$$$$
 
480sparky said:
So pick a spot along the wall.... any spot.

Are you within 6' of a receptacle? And you though word problems in school were tough!
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Okay, is see it now not because of your pictures (thanks anyway) but the way you explained your interpretation. I've wire 100's of homes and never struggled with layout but I also never understood this wording :roll: I still think it could be re-worded though.
 
For those following this thread, keep in mind that 12' is the Code minimum (actually, maximum) distance between receptacles.

If, when laying out a room, I end up with the last recep within 1 or 2 feet of the door, I will slide everything 'back' along the wall to keep the last recept from being buried behind the open door.

You don't need to have everything exactly 6' and 12'. Just no more than that. 4?'-11'-12'-10?'-11?'-9'-5' is perfectly fine. Just depends on the layout of the room, and where the maximums end up with in regards to door, corners, etc. To keep things aesthetically (sp?) pleasing, I may well end up adding one recep in a room.
 
I'll occasionally get prints with the bed location drawn in with dotted lines for the bedrooms. In those cases, I'll try to make it so there isn't a receptacle behind the bed, and put one near or behind where each night stand location would be. Just makes good sense.
 
I've actually just gone 6' from all broken edges like door and fireplaces then filled in-between with the 12', once I see the layout on the floor adjusts for desire and install. If you have 2'+ behind a door it does require a receptacle 210-52(A)(2)(1), railings count as wall space also 210-52(A)(2)(2). And if code minimum is fine with you 1 receptacle in a 10' hall but 0 in a 9' hall 210-52(H).
 
wirenutt said:
i am an electrician with 14 years experience doing residential and light commercial work. 2 days ago i met with an union represenative to explore the oppertunity to work in the local union. i was given an exam and one question was spacing receptacles in a residential dwelling , there was a picture of a room with one door. i don't recall the dementions , but using the 6 / 12 rule i concluded there should be 5 receptacles and he said i was wrong. he opened the code book to 210.52. he said the spacing is 6 foot between outlets and i said twelve. i see his point about streching a lamp cord if it is the middle of two outlets, but i have always gone twelve foot. every electrician i know does to. are we all wrong including our inspectors?
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You are right there are less than inteligent people everywhere.
 
tryinghard said:
I've actually just gone 6' from all broken edges like door and fireplaces then filled in-between with the 12', once I see the layout on the floor adjusts for desire and install. If you have 2'+ behind a door it does require a receptacle 210-52(A)(2)(1), railings count as wall space also 210-52(A)(2)(2). And if code minimum is fine with you 1 receptacle in a 10' hall but 0 in a 9' hall 210-52(H).
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Just curious how everyone looks at the fireplace , do you measure from the outside edge of the overall unit including the facade, or from the very edge of the firebox ? I will put one as near to the fireplace as is reasonable.
 
acrwc10 said:
Just curious how everyone looks at the fireplace , do you measure from the outside edge of the overall unit including the facade, or from the very edge of the firebox ? I will put one as near to the fireplace as is reasonable.
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That's always a tough one. Some fireplaces can have a brick surround 20 feet wide or better. I like it best when I'm involved before the mason starts to bulild the brickwork inside.
 
Just because this person may be testing you - does not mean he knows the answers. Probably never an "Electrician" - when I think of "Rep" or "Representative" - I think - "Salesman" or other things to that and other effects....
 
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