NEC requirement for Kitchen wall outlets

[ovis12]

Good morning forum, I came across this unique situation and wanted some second thoughts from my peers.
Is the highlighted floor receptacle "required" by NEC?
The glass wall between the fridge and the island is @ 3ft.
The island is not attached to the glass wall.
Will any wall >2ft., even within kitchens between the counter and an island require a wall receptacle per 210.52(A)(2)?
It seems that this is a grey area in the code.
Thank you, Ovi

 

[infinity]

Will any wall >2ft., even within kitchens between the counter and an island require a wall receptacle per 210.52(A)(2)?

IMO yes and the floor receptacle would need to be no more than 6' from the edge of the hinged side balcony door.

 

[ovis12]

Thank you for your feedback. Some of my friends had the same opinion. We all agreed that the space between the island and the glass wall of the balcony is a "dead" space, both inaccessible and unusable. To me, it does not make any logic to have it there. But again this is my opinion. Can a field inspector enforce it? yes, of course. Does a floor receptacle in the kitchen, in front of the fridge add any value to the dwelling unit? Anything that you plug in can be a trip hazard IMO. you can spill water in it. Is there anything in the NEC code that would not require an outlet to be installed if having it can cause a trip hazard, or something similar?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Is that a door in the glass wall. If so then I would add a receptacle at the other end of the glass wall

 

[augie47]

I agree it's probably required but, as you state, an increased hazard. Unless it's a slab I would be awfully tempted to have a wire in place in case I was required to put a floor receptacle there but rely on a common sense inspection.

 

[ovis12]

Is that a door in the glass wall. If so then I would add a receptacle at the other end of the glass wall

The entire glass wall floor to ceiling is fixed, except the part with the dashed line (next to the fridge). There is an operable window in the glass wall (mechanical ventilation) on the top part of the glass wall. see the elevation view, how you see it from the exterior of the building.

 

[infinity]

It's required even if the location is completely stupid.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I would check with inspector and see if he uses his common sense

 

[infinity]

The location on the drawing appears to more than 6' from the door so you may actually need two unless you want it in the small gap between the glass wall and the island and the total wall length to the door is 12' or less..

 

[wwhitney]

Let's call the 6" in front of the glass a hallway, then it only needs one receptacle, which can be in the side of the island facing the hallway. : - )

Cheers, Wayne

 

[infinity]

Let's call the 6" in front of the glass a hallway, then it only needs one receptacle, which can be in the side of the island facing the hallway. : - )

Cheers, Wayne

Or he could just comply with the 6'/12' wall spacing rule as written.

 

[ovis12]

Thank you very much everyone for your feedback. It comes down to the AHJ inspector either to enforce the NEC "per se", or a common sense approach. I will contact the AHJ for their feedback, as they have the final word on matters like this. I hope the NEC board will decide to clarify that in the dwelling units' kitchens only the countertop receptacles shall be enforced, or something similar.

 

[infinity]

Thank you very much everyone for your feedback. It comes down to the AHJ inspector either to enforce the NEC "per se", or a common sense approach. I will contact the AHJ for their feedback, as they have the final word on matters like this. I hope the NEC board will decide to clarify that in the dwelling units' kitchens only the countertop receptacles shall be enforced, or something similar.

Bottom line is you'll need at least one floor receptacle on that wall which begins at the door. And unfortunately putting it in front of a refrigerator is just plain dumb.

 

[winnie]

Given the small gap between the glass wall and the _fixed_ island, one could plausibly argue that receptacles on the fixed island serve the glass wall.

Receptacle outlets in habitable rooms shall be installed so that no point measured horizontally along the floor line in any unbroken wall space is more than 6 ft. from a receptacle outlet.

Measure horizontally along the floor from any point on the glass wall to the receptacles in the base of the fixed island. If the measurement is less than 6 feet, then IMHO you are kosher.

If instead you say 'no, the wire has to follow the wall', then measure the 'L' formed by going along the wall, turning the corner, and going to the receptacle in the island. If those measurements are less than 6 feet, then IMHO you are kosher.

The space between the fixed island and the wall is too narrow for foot traffic. IMHO the space between the island and the wall is similar to the space between a floor receptacle and a wall, and floor receptacles are accepted as serving walls.

-Jonathan

 

[TX+ MASTER#4544]

IMO yes and the floor receptacle would need to be no more than 6' from the edge of the hinged side balcony door.

Receptacle outlets(s) in or on floors shall not be counted as part of the required number of receptacle outlets unless located within 18 inches of the wall, see 210.52(A)(3).
I can't tell if this is a required outlet, (the one in the kitchen) doesn't look like it.
Maybe it belongs on the other side of the glass wall.

TX+MASTER#4544

 

[LarryFine]

In my opinion, the island need not be affixed to the glass wall to be seen as an interruption to it. In other words, I see the wall from the door opening to the "peninsula" as one wall, and the wall between it and the refrigerator as another wall (wall segments if you prefer).

What is receptacle "8. GU" and what is there for? It's certainly close enough to the refrigerator to serve the wall space. In my opinion, it should be discussed and determined that a floor receptacle should not be placed there. What could possibly need to be plugged in there?

These comments are based on eyeballing the plans without dimensions.

 

[LarryFine]

Okay, I see 8. is apparently the circuit number, so it's a small-appliance circuit. Is GU a type or color code?

I will alter my previous comments slightly. The wall segment runs from the door to around the island, so that's covered by the receptacle identified by the red arrow.

I still say that the fridge doors and island drawers preclude leaving anything plugged in there, and if necessary, the other island receptacle serves that space.

 

[ovis12]

In my opinion, the island need not be affixed to the glass wall to be seen as an interruption to it. In other words, I see the wall from the door opening to the "peninsula" as one wall, and the wall between it and the refrigerator as another wall (wall segments if you prefer).

What is receptacle "8. GU" and what is there for? It's certainly close enough to the refrigerator to serve the wall space. In my opinion, it should be discussed and determined that a floor receptacle should not be placed there. What could possibly need to be plugged in there?

These comments are based on eyeballing the plans without dimensions.

 

[ovis12]

because there is a waterfall countertop there is no way to put it on the right side. on the living side, the countertop extends more than 6" from the support base. The only way to have a counter receptacle on this island is where is shown. (Unless you want to cut the granite of course)...... Very tough situations with those "all glass" multifamilies.

 

[LarryFine]

because there is a waterfall countertop there is no way to put it on the right side. on the living side, the countertop extends more than 6" from the support base. The only way to have a counter receptacle on this island is where is shown. (Unless you want to cut the granite of course)...... Very tough situations with those "all glass" multifamilies.

I wasn't suggesting that you need any more receptacles. I think the receptacle shown in the pic is more than adequate to serve the space to its left.