NEC requirement for Kitchen wall outlets

[TX+ MASTER#4544]

To determine the correct number of branch circuits for general lighting, use the method according to 3/VA per sq ft.
It looks like you already have the 2 small appliance circuits.
The plan shows 1240 sq ft.
The island receptacles are not required in the 2023 NEC, unless there's a local amendment.
I know they're on with the SAs loads.
Yes, the 210.52 (A)(2) (1)(2)(3) does apply.

Thanks,
TX+MASTER#4544

 

[wwhitney]

I wasn't suggesting that you need any more receptacles. I think the receptacle shown in the pic is more than adequate to serve the space to its left.

Except that NEC 210.52(A)(4) and 210.52(C) both say that a receptacle outlet installed to satisfy a countertop requirement can't be used to satisfy a wall requirement. Presumably the receptacle shown is the 210.52(C) receptacle for the island.

But a second receptacle outlet could be installed below the 210.52(C) receptacle for the island, and I think that would satisfy 210.52(A). I agree with Winnie that 210.52(A) doesn't actually say the receptacle for the wall space has to be within the wall or the floor.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Mr. Serious]

I like Wayne's idea for a second receptacle under the one pictured. I would put it on the circuit with the refrigerator, though. By putting it on circuit #16 with the living room and balcony receptacles, I think you're violating 210.52 (B)(1) and (B)(2), which require all kitchen/dinette/DR/pantry receptacles to be on their own circuits with no other outlets on those circuits. In fact, I would call the area just inside the balcony entrance a dinette and say that area needs to also be served solely by the small-appliance branch circuits.

 

[kwired]

Except that NEC 210.52(A)(4) and 210.52(C) both say that a receptacle outlet installed to satisfy a countertop requirement can't be used to satisfy a wall requirement. Presumably the receptacle shown is the 210.52(C) receptacle for the island.

But a second receptacle outlet could be installed below the 210.52(C) receptacle for the island, and I think that would satisfy 210.52(A). I agree with Winnie that 210.52(A) doesn't actually say the receptacle for the wall space has to be within the wall or the floor.

Cheers, Wayne

I think they added wording more recently (not sure which edition) to clarify that. Before the change one could possibly use one receptacle to satisfy both requirements and there was no clear restriction otherwise though the intent was maybe to have separate receptacles for each purpose.

 

[TX+ MASTER#4544]

I like Wayne's idea for a second receptacle under the one pictured. I would put it on the circuit with the refrigerator, though. By putting it on circuit #16 with the living room and balcony receptacles, I think you're violating 210.52 (B)(1) and (B)(2), which require all kitchen/dinette/DR/pantry receptacles to be on their own circuits with no other outlets on those circuits. In fact, I would call the area just inside the balcony entrance a dinette and say that area needs to also be served solely by the small-appliance branch circuits.

I use the 2023 NEC.
I don't have the "picture" available but, you said.......a dinette and say that area........"
So, you may be correct with your definition and the small appliance circuits about the NEC rules thereof.

Now, I want you to go to Article 100 Definitions. And find Kitchen.

The definition reads..................An area with a sink and permanent provisions for food preparation and cooking.
It could be classified as an area that's part of the kitchen. It's (area) a widely used electrical term.

Check out definitions of a Bathroom area and Laundry Area in Article 100.

For the AHJ, its a judgement call because of critical areas where GFCIs /AFCIs are required and, perhaps, your entire area may be considered a kitchen.
Especially in very large rooms such as mentioned in the definitions. Some of those venues may cover several hundred square feet.

But, not at my house, chuckle.

Thanks,
Comments accepted
TX+MASTER#4544

 

[kwired]

I use the 2023 NEC.
I don't have the "picture" available but, you said.......a dinette and say that area........"
So, you may be correct with your definition and the small appliance circuits about the NEC rules thereof.

Now, I want you to go to Article 100 Definitions. And find Kitchen.

The definition reads..................An area with a sink and permanent provisions for food preparation and cooking.
It could be classified as an area that's part of the kitchen. It's (area) a widely used electrical term.

Check out definitions of a Bathroom area and Laundry Area in Article 100.

For the AHJ, its a judgement call because of critical areas where GFCIs /AFCIs are required and, perhaps, your entire area may be considered a kitchen.
Especially in very large rooms such as mentioned in the definitions. Some of those venues may cover several hundred square feet.

But, not at my house, chuckle.

Thanks,
Comments accepted
TX+MASTER#4544

But the SABC's can serve receptacle outlets in any/all of: kitchen, dining, pantry, breakfast room or other similar areas so the issue here is not about SABC's but rather fulfillment of different 210.52 (B) receptacle location requirements.

Same SABC can serve any outlet required by 210.52 (B) or (C).

(B) does require there be at least two SABC's but that kind of isn't part of what is in question here.