In reguards to the code change in Article 410.130(G) I am very surprised that the powers to be did not also make it mandatory that you post a sign next to the disconnecting means that says. All qualified personnel shall turn the disconnecting means to the off position before disconnecting the wires to the ballast. I read that this change was made because a large number of so called qualified people are getting electrocuted. I guess turning off the light switch and using a flashlight never entered their minds. The majority of the code changes in the 2008 code I find to be very funny. Like posting a sign on the panel telling the so called qualified electrician that Phase B is 208V so he will know not connect a 120V receptacle to it. NEC for dummies
Nec
- Thread starter arnolds
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Im not sure that my safety is a laughing matter. The 410.130 change was propose as 410.73 (Ithink) to the 2005 NEC. This was an attempt to take the pressure off of qualified individuals responsible for electrical maintenance where not trade professionals could care less if the electrician gets fried to the ceiling as long as they don't kill the lights. I know I have been in that position and too proud to shut it down. Luckly I have survied to watch my grand children.
(just a thought, and Check out 70E)
(just a thought, and Check out 70E)
frizbeedog
Senior Member
- Location
- Oregon
Hold on dude....
Hold on dude....
Wow, now I can work on a string of lights and not kill the whole shebang. How cool. I can make a repair in less time because I don't have to find and shut off the whole works. I don't have to leave the room in darkness.
Are you mad about this because it insults your superior skills as an electrician, no wait, trained professional?
I guess you don't like practical.
I wan't to say more but I don't want this post deleted.
have a nice day:smile: ....see signature.
Hold on dude....
arnolds said:
Wow, now I can work on a string of lights and not kill the whole shebang. How cool. I can make a repair in less time because I don't have to find and shut off the whole works. I don't have to leave the room in darkness.
Are you mad about this because it insults your superior skills as an electrician, no wait, trained professional?
I guess you don't like practical.
I wan't to say more but I don't want this post deleted.
have a nice day:smile: ....see signature.
Nec
With all due respect Charlie, Being proud has nothing to do with this. This is about knowledge and using common sense so you are safe. I know not to use a metal ladder when working on electricity. I also know to first verify weather whatever I am working on is energized and I aslo know to treat anything I am working on as if it is energized. I have changed over 3,000 ballast in my 35 years as a licensed electrician 95% of them hot. I use a wooden or fiberglass ladder and will touch any single conductor bare while I am standing on that ladder and not get shocked or electrocuted. The few times I have been shocked installing a switch between the supply conductor and the ballast conductor would not have prevented me from getting shocked. This change like many of the other changes is strictly to protect unqualified people who are doing our work. If maintenance people are changing light ballast, doing electrical work they should be trained and licensed not forced to be protected which will raise the cost of construction.
With all due respect Charlie, Being proud has nothing to do with this. This is about knowledge and using common sense so you are safe. I know not to use a metal ladder when working on electricity. I also know to first verify weather whatever I am working on is energized and I aslo know to treat anything I am working on as if it is energized. I have changed over 3,000 ballast in my 35 years as a licensed electrician 95% of them hot. I use a wooden or fiberglass ladder and will touch any single conductor bare while I am standing on that ladder and not get shocked or electrocuted. The few times I have been shocked installing a switch between the supply conductor and the ballast conductor would not have prevented me from getting shocked. This change like many of the other changes is strictly to protect unqualified people who are doing our work. If maintenance people are changing light ballast, doing electrical work they should be trained and licensed not forced to be protected which will raise the cost of construction.
frizbeedog
Senior Member
- Location
- Oregon
arnolds said:
Small price to pay for convienience and saftey.
mabey a buck and a quarter at best. :smile:
Nec
No I am definitely not mad. I think it is fuuny. I am old school way before electronic ballast. Back then you needed to fuse each fixture. But if no fuse you changed the ballast hot. My point is that if you do not know how to or are not qualified to work on energized equipment then you have no business working on it. Any of the companies I have ever worked for would have fired me or anybody else who turned off all the light fixtures to change one ballast. Heck we are electricians we work with electricity
No I am definitely not mad. I think it is fuuny. I am old school way before electronic ballast. Back then you needed to fuse each fixture. But if no fuse you changed the ballast hot. My point is that if you do not know how to or are not qualified to work on energized equipment then you have no business working on it. Any of the companies I have ever worked for would have fired me or anybody else who turned off all the light fixtures to change one ballast. Heck we are electricians we work with electricity
stickboy1375
Senior Member
- Location
- Litchfield, CT
arnolds said:
This is a sad, sad statement.
JohnJ0906
Senior Member
- Location
- Baltimore, MD
stickboy1375 said:
Agreed.
Arnolds, exactly how much do you get paid to risk your life for no good reason?
quogueelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- new york
70E clearly defines hand touch electrical work which you are describing. You dont seem to be aware of any of these requirements by what you are posting.arnolds said:
stickboy1375
Senior Member
- Location
- Litchfield, CT
arnolds said:
This is an unsafe practice. Trade data indicate that 277-volt
lighting circuits are one of the leading causes of work-related
deaths among electricians.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
stickboy1375 said:
Not just dangerous, but incredibly stupid as well.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
arnolds said:
Yup, and you can get shocked and die on the 3001st one.
Past performance with positive results is no guarantee of future positive results.
stickboy1375
Senior Member
- Location
- Litchfield, CT
peter d said:
Some people are just too cool to turn the power off, I feel sorry for these peoples families.
frizbeedog
Senior Member
- Location
- Oregon
stickboy1375 said:
He's not scared of 'lectricity. Let's hope he's not scared to return to this forum and learn a thing or two.
but, as the saying goes....new tricks and old dogs.....or something like that.
JohnJ0906
Senior Member
- Location
- Baltimore, MD
Hopefully the next time he changes a ballast, he will think first, and disconnect power.
I have certainly changed my habits since coming here.
I have certainly changed my habits since coming here.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
JohnJ0906 said:
That's just it. ALL of use have worked live at some point in our lives, but we come to a point when we realize the risk of doing something stupid like changing a ballast live is just not worth it.
frizbeedog
Senior Member
- Location
- Oregon
A Paradigm Shift
A Paradigm Shift
And hopefully he'll install an inexpensive disconnect for the next guy while he's at it.
....and read these posts and learn from the wisdom shared here.
Thanks for adding that John. :smile:
A Paradigm Shift
JohnJ0906 said:
And hopefully he'll install an inexpensive disconnect for the next guy while he's at it.
....and read these posts and learn from the wisdom shared here.
Thanks for adding that John. :smile:
JohnJ0906
Senior Member
- Location
- Baltimore, MD
peter d said:
I'm not a father, but....
My twin Goddaughters turned 5 today. I have every intention of walking them down the aisle one day, and I refuse to risk that by doing something stupid and UNNESSARY!
Nec
Allright you smart guys. The code says that the switch must be within sight of the light fixture. So if I have a 2x4 lay in ceiling fixture where does the code say the switch must be. Inside the light fixture unless you have x-ray vision. Now where inside a 2x4 fluorescent can you install a switch so the wires will be hidden by the ballast cover? Install the switch to the cover so when you remove the cover it is hanging down by the wires. How safe is that. Or do I install the switch in between the lamp sockets? No that will not work. Oh yea I now have to cut the ceiling tile out and install a ceiling box so the switch will be insight of the lay in fixture. And then I have to wire it. And you say you will only charge me $1.00 That wont pay for the material. I have not heard of or bought any lay in light fixtures with switches installed by the factory. I would think that the factory would have to redesign the light fixture so the wires are concealed and the cover can be removed safely. I would also think that the cost would be more than a $1.00. The illustration I saw was of a surface mounted fixture a fluorescent strip. So anywhere you put the switch on the fixture the switch will be within sight of and the wires will be concealed.
Allright you smart guys. The code says that the switch must be within sight of the light fixture. So if I have a 2x4 lay in ceiling fixture where does the code say the switch must be. Inside the light fixture unless you have x-ray vision. Now where inside a 2x4 fluorescent can you install a switch so the wires will be hidden by the ballast cover? Install the switch to the cover so when you remove the cover it is hanging down by the wires. How safe is that. Or do I install the switch in between the lamp sockets? No that will not work. Oh yea I now have to cut the ceiling tile out and install a ceiling box so the switch will be insight of the lay in fixture. And then I have to wire it. And you say you will only charge me $1.00 That wont pay for the material. I have not heard of or bought any lay in light fixtures with switches installed by the factory. I would think that the factory would have to redesign the light fixture so the wires are concealed and the cover can be removed safely. I would also think that the cost would be more than a $1.00. The illustration I saw was of a surface mounted fixture a fluorescent strip. So anywhere you put the switch on the fixture the switch will be within sight of and the wires will be concealed.
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