NECA Manual vs. 3rd party estimating company

[Clint623]

Who uses what? I'm new to bidding small commercial jobs and it gets overwhelming at times as far as estimating how much time should be used to do a certain task. Does anyone trust 3rd party estimators? In the beginning of being a business owner I would get about a dozen emails/calls a day and I didn't have any use for them because all my jobs were T&M and small. Now that I'm trying to expand, I'm starting to get bid invites for smaller commercial jobs and not sure on how to estimate time for a future journeyman and helper to help complete the job.

 

[petersonra]

My observation is that even past history is no guarantee of an accurate estimate of what it will take to build something. People have different skill levels, and the foreman running the job often makes a big difference. Some of those guys are really good and some are pretty mediocre.

Put a good Foreman with a good crew and you can really make money. Put a mediocre foreman with a mediocre crew and you'll be lucky to break even.

Jobs that are too small to have a foreman are hard to call because you don't know how motivated the worker bees are going to be. Plus a lot of times the administrative stuff like making sure parts show up is a little overwhelming to the worker bees because they aren't used to dealing with it and don't know how to do so effectively.

Sometimes the job site can be a big factor in how efficient the employees end up being.

 

[GarryHartwick]

When I started estimating we did not have computers. Everything was hand written and and tallied. when computers came out and we first started using them what a dream. All our history I had converted to Lotus 123 for spread sheets. At the end of my career we were using estimating software and excel. NECA manual is a great tool for change orders and reference tool. I have also used means for change orders and compared them against NECA manual.
I do agree with the above statement about a good foreman and a mediocre foreman. All jobs when they leave your desk have a handsome profit, the out come of a job depends on a lot of other factors, supplies, men, set up, GC/Prime and completion in a timely manor.
It is a great job and learning experience. I had 42 years of mostly enjoyment and a few not so nice projects.
Hope this helps.
Garry

 

[cdslotz]

"Does anyone trust 3rd party estimators?"
If you have to ask this question, then there is your answer. YOU are still responsible for missed fixture counts, bad switchgear BOM for quotes, omissions, errors, wrong specifications reading or substitutions.....I could go on
The only way to "trust" a 3rd party takeoff is to know more about the bid than he does....so why do it at all?

 

[GarryHartwick]

"So why do it at all"

As a director of design and build in the field I was employed, one cannot do everything and come out with the full scope covered. Some project I had employed 3 or 4 estimators to accomplish what was desired of a complete estimate. I doing so these estimators, although being employed by the same company, are third party estimators. The use of third party estimators is fine as long as you are knowledgeable of their capabilities and understand how they come up with a number. This is how you develop your trust factor.