Need GFI on boat dock?

[mkgrady]

For a dwelling aren't the dockside 125V, 15 or 20A receptacles the same as any other outside receptacle? I'm not a dwelling whiz, but aren't dwelling outside receptacles GFI protected?

As I recall, when I build my house (2005 code), they were.

speaking of convenience receptacles, not the 30A shore power

cf

My understanding is the same as yours. I don't get why gfi is not required on the 30 amp receptacle.

 

[Cavie]

most interesting... best plan appears to be shoot the messenger and burn the Article :grin:

Cavie, I apologioze...I looked at Art 682 but did not read it more than once. It now ranks in the top 3 Articles that confuse me :grin:, but, I would agree that an AHJ certainly might see this article as applicaple...from the wording almost all bodies of water would be covered, and GFCI would be required. Worse, the section on the equopotential plane will cause more trouble than than Art 680.

Don't feel like a loner. I brought this art up 2 years ago on this forum and it pretty much got egnored as it does by most electricians everywhere. It really does take some carefull reading and thinking. When we sprung it on the electricians in Lee County back in 07, they all thought we had two heads. (not that they didn't already). I received my walking papers in Jan. 08 along with 30 other inspectors due to the slowdown in building, but this art # was really causing plenty of havoc when I left.

 

[mkgrady]

Don't feel like a loner. I brought this art up 2 years ago on this forum and it pretty much got egnored as it does by most electricians everywhere. It really does take some carefull reading and thinking. When we sprung it on the electricians in Lee County back in 07, they all thought we had two heads. (not that they didn't already). I received my walking papers in Jan. 08 along with 30 other inspectors due to the slowdown in building, but this art # was really causing plenty of havoc when I left.

Is your point that the 30 amp receptacle on the boat dock needs to be gfi protected in accordance with NEC 682?

 

[Cavie]

Is your point that the 30 amp receptacle on the boat dock needs to be gfi protected in accordance with NEC 682?

It would seem so per 682.33 (b)

 

[e57]

I never gave it much thought but I'm wondering why gfi protection is not required for boat dock power. I'm talking about the standard 30 amp twist lock receptacle. Don't these boats have 120 volt receptacles on board? When someone plugs a tool into a standard duplex receptacle and works around the dock they are unprotected, perhaps barefoot and perhaps covered with sweat. Seems dangerous.

I guess the code assumes this 30A plug to feed 120v 15&20A recepts that ARE GFI protected - as a 'feeder'....

It would seem so per 682.33 (b)

Which code cycle is this ref?
The 2005 NEC is still only GFI's for 15&20A recept's in 682.... (682.15)

 

[Cavie]

i guess the code assumes this 30a plug to feed 120v 15&20a recepts that are gfi protected - as a 'feeder'....
Which code cycle is this ref?
The 2005 nec is still only gfi's for 15&20a recept's in 682.... (682.15)

2005 682.33 (b)

 

[mkgrady]

It would seem so per 682.33 (b)

I agree it seems to require gfi protection for 30 amp receptacles on a dock. But I don't remember ever seeing it on a shore power box. I also don't ever remember seeing gfi receptacles on boats that have 15 or 20 amp receptacles. Is this a new requirement as of 2005?

 

[Cavie]

I agree it seems to require gfi protection for 30 amp receptacles on a dock. But I don't remember ever seeing it on a shore power box. I also don't ever remember seeing gfi receptacles on boats that have 15 or 20 amp receptacles. Is this a new requirement as of 2005?

Yes, 682 was new to the 2005 code.

 

[e57]

2005 682.33 (b)

Hmmmmm???????

 

[radiopet]

(B) Areas Not Requiring Equipotential Planes. Equipotential
planes shall not be required for the controlled equipment
supplied by the service equipment or disconnecting
means. All circuits rated not more than 60 amperes at 120
through 250 volts, single phase, shall have GFCI protection.

NECH's Commentary ( MacPartland's Edition )

Part (B) covers where the planes are not required, specifically, at the equipment
supplied and disconnected by the items specified in Part (A). However,
all circuits rated 120 V through 250 V, single phase, must have GFCI protection.
Note that this is a circuit requirement, so point of use GFCI devices, such as
GFCI receptacles, will not comply with this requirement.

 

[mkgrady]

(B) Areas Not Requiring Equipotential Planes. Equipotential
planes shall not be required for the controlled equipment
supplied by the service equipment or disconnecting
means. All circuits rated not more than 60 amperes at 120
through 250 volts, single phase, shall have GFCI protection.

NECH's Commentary ( MacPartland's Edition )

Part (B) covers where the planes are not required, specifically, at the equipment
supplied and disconnected by the items specified in Part (A). However,
all circuits rated 120 V through 250 V, single phase, must have GFCI protection.
Note that this is a circuit requirement, so point of use GFCI devices, such as
GFCI receptacles, will not comply with this requirement.

Does this mean the gfi protection must be ahead of the receptacle jusr before the circuit enters the dock?

 

[radiopet]

However, I believe one deals with the equipment connected to the service equipment and/or disconnect regarding the lack of needing an EQP and 682.15 deals more so with the actual receptacles. So a 30A , 125V receptacle would not need GFCI but if it is a circuit feeding a piece of equipment say direct....GFCI would be required.

 

[Cavie]

(B) Areas Not Requiring Equipotential Planes. Equipotential
planes shall not be required for the controlled equipment
supplied by the service equipment or disconnecting
means. All circuits rated not more than 60 amperes at 120
through 250 volts, single phase, shall have GFCI protection.

NECH's Commentary ( MacPartland's Edition )

Part (B) covers where the planes are not required, specifically, at the equipment
supplied and disconnected by the items specified in Part (A). However,
all circuits rated 120 V through 250 V, single phase, must have GFCI protection.
Note that this is a circuit requirement, so point of use GFCI devices, such as
GFCI receptacles, will not comply with this requirement.

So your saying one must use a GFI Breaker?

 

[radiopet]

Does this mean the gfi protection must be ahead of the receptacle jusr before the circuit enters the dock?

Well I happen to think if we are speaking simply of a 30A receptacle...then GFCI is not required however I feel it may be a good idea. I happen to believe 682.15 covers this one. I need to look at the ROP and see if any proposals were made. My hard copy is at the office....

 

[radiopet]

Honestly, until the article is truly flushed out I would er on the side of caution and GFCI protect all receptacles placed below the datum plane.....regardless of any reference.

 

[Cold Fusion]

---I would er on the side of caution and GFCI protect all receptacles placed below the datum plane.....regardless of any reference.

Just curious - has anyone ever seen a 2 pole, 60A GFCI CB for an SQD QO panel? I've seen GFE, but not GFCI.

How about a GE residential panel? I think those are THQL? I don't think they make them either.

cf

 

[Cavie]

So your saying one must use a GFI Breaker?

Brain fart!!! You would have to at 30 amps!!!

 

[radiopet]

Brain fart!!! You would have to at 30 amps!!!

lol....what, you missed those new GFCI 30A receptacles on the shelf at the big box store...shame on you..