Need Help With EGC Question

[cgamad550]

I have a Question that I'm hoping you can help answer for me.
I recently purchased a property and at the service entrance. I have 2 copper wires coming from the EGC. One goes up top and is attached at the weather head to the neutral/ground coming in from the lines coming from the transformer, the other is going up into the meter can.
Is this properly grounded? There no ground wire in the service panel attached to the ground bar but the neutrals and grounds are bonded with the bonding screw.
We have issues with frequent power surges and I have installed a Square D HEPD80 SPD device. But someone told me if there's no EGC connected to the service panel itself that the SPD won't actually work. Is this correct?
Or do I need to install 2 ground rods and connect an EGC directly into the service Panel.
If you could please help me with this it would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The hookup is unusual but if I understand you correctly, then it is compliant and not an issue. BUT maybe I misinterpreted what you said.
The egc is an equipment grounding conductor but you mean a gec grounding electrode conductor. I assumed that the 2 copper wires were connected to a ground rod. Where are they originate from?

 

[cgamad550]

The 2 copper wires are coming from the ground rods. 1 wire goes up to the weather head and is connected to the drip clamp connecting the neutral/ground coming from the transformers lines. The 2nd comes from the ground rod and goes into the meter can. In the service panel the neutral and grounds are bonded via the bonding screw. But there is no EGC wire connected inside the service panel itself. I was just needing to know if this is properly grounded? I've never seen a EGC connected this way. I usually always see it going from the Ground Rods and Connect inside the service panel ground bar.
We have issues with power surges and I did install a Square D HEPD80 SPD and just wanted to make sure it would work even there wasn't a EGC connected directly inside the service panel isolated Ground Bar.
Or do I need to just install 2 new Ground Rods and Connect and EGC to the Service Panel?
I'm guessing this was hooked up probably 20+ years ago.

 

[Little Bill]

The 2 copper wires are coming from the ground rods. 1 wire goes up to the weather head and is connected to the drip clamp connecting the neutral/ground coming from the transformers lines. The 2nd comes from the ground rod and goes into the meter can. In the service panel the neutral and grounds are bonded via the bonding screw. But there is no EGC wire connected inside the service panel itself. I was just needing to know if this is properly grounded? I've never seen a EGC connected this way. I usually always see it going from the Ground Rods and Connect inside the service panel ground bar.
We have issues with power surges and I did install a Square D HEPD80 SPD and just wanted to make sure it would work even there wasn't a EGC connected directly inside the service panel isolated Ground Bar.
Or do I need to just install 2 new Ground Rods and Connect and EGC to the Service Panel?
I'm guessing this was hooked up probably 20+ years ago.

You keep saying EGC, Equipment grounding Conductor. What you are describing is a GEC, Grounding Electrode Conductor.

If the GEC is connected at the weatherhead, that's all that needs to be done. There shouldn't be one conductor going to the weatherhead, and one to the Meter. That is redundant as the connection at the WH is to the neutral, and also connected to the neutral in the meter. If there are two rods, there should only be one GEC from the rods. It can be continuous, or can be a jumper from one rod to the other.

 

[cgamad550]

It's the Earth Grounding Conductor. Sorry for the miss information. But there is 2 solid ground wires coming from in the ground and like I said there is 1 that goes inside the meter can and another that goes to the very top and is connected outside the weather head and connects to where the neutral/ground is crimped together from the line coming from the transformer to the meter.
Like I said I think this was all hooked up over 20+ years ago. I know if if it was being installed todY it would have 2 ground rods and you would connect that earth Ground wire to the ground bar inside the service panel.
So from what you said this is properly grounded.

 

[cgamad550]

And this is a CO op power company a very rural area so I guess they wanted a ground to be connected to the meter can. I do appreciate all the info you have provided and taken the time to answer all my questions

 

[Crash117]

It's the Earth Grounding Conductor. Sorry for the miss information. But there is 2 solid ground wires coming from in the ground and like I said there is 1 that goes inside the meter can and another that goes to the very top and is connected outside the weather head and connects to where the neutral/ground is crimped together from the line coming from the transformer to the meter.
Like I said I think this was all hooked up over 20+ years ago. I know if if it was being installed todY it would have 2 ground rods and you would connect that earth Ground wire to the ground bar inside the service panel.
So from what you said this is properly grounded.

In order to get a response to what you’re asking, can you please use the proper terminology for what you’re asking. The GEC is the grounding electrode conductor which is what connects your system to the ground rods or what ever ground electrode you are using. The EGC is the equipment grounding conductor which runs with every circuit to ground all parts of those circuits that require grounding.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

It's the Earth Grounding Conductor. Sorry for the miss information. But there is 2 solid ground wires coming from in the ground and like I said there is 1 that goes inside the meter can and another that goes to the very top and is connected outside the weather head and connects to where the neutral/ground is crimped together from the line coming from the transformer to the meter.
Like I said I think this was all hooked up over 20+ years ago. I know if if it was being installed todY it would have 2 ground rods and you would connect that earth Ground wire to the ground bar inside the service panel.
So from what you said this is properly grounded.

You can connect the grounding electrode conductor at the weatherhead where it connects to the neutral or bare conductor or you can connect it within the meter base or main panel. There is no need for connections in 2 places however it isn't a violation. The install sounds compliant

 

[cgamad550]

Ok thank you very much for giving me the answer I needed.

 

[suemarkp]

Some utilities require the GEC land in the meter enclosure. Others prohibit that because they consider it not accessible. It seems better to me to get the GEC out as far from the main disconnect as possible, but still being at the building. So weatherhead or meter are better approaches.

Running the GEC from the main disconnect is most common. Wherever it is run from, the normal way is to run the GEC from there to a rod and continue on to the 2nd rod. Sometimes, the GEC lands on the 1st rod, and a separate conductor is run to the 2nd rod. It is unusual to run separate GECs from a single electrode to separate points on the service neutral.

 

[cgamad550]

Some utilities require the GEC land in the meter enclosure. Others prohibit that because they consider it not accessible. It seems better to me to get the GEC out as far from the main disconnect as possible, but still being at the building. So weatherhead or meter are better approaches.

Running the GEC from the main disconnect is most common. Wherever it is run from, the normal way is to run the GEC from there to a rod and continue on to the 2nd rod. Sometimes, the GEC lands on the 1st rod, and a separate conductor is run to the 2nd rod. It is unusual to run separate GECs from a single electrode to separate points on the service neutral.

Yes that does make perfect sense. This was probably all ran and hooked up 20+ years ago. I know when I would run a sub panel I pull 4 wires to the detached sturucted and install 2 ground rods and connect a continuous bare copper wire to the ground bar on the sub panel.
So with the way it's connected at the service entrance 1 earth Ground conductor connected to the neutral at the weather head and another running from the ground to the meter can and the neutral and ground bonded at the service panel via the bonding screw this is properly grounded and the SPD device will work correctly??

 

[suemarkp]

Yep. It just has some redundancies.

 

[cgamad550]

Yep. It just has some redundancies.

Thank You

 

[david]

Your service drop most likely is aluminum and it depends on how the GEC is made to the service drop.

You haven't broken the seal for yhe meter so your unsure of how the connection inside the meter Iwas done.

The way the grounding electrode conductor is installed tapping at the weather head and also connected in the meter the GEC is also a Nuetral conductor with is allowed by code. It's not that it is a Nuetral it's acting like a Nuetral.

You said there is no GEC in your service panel, did you happen to notice where your water pipe bond is.

 

[cgamad550]

Hi David no I didn't see i think that's what the panel in the house is grounded to ( cold Water Pipe ) I did run a sub panel to a detached structure and did pull 4 wires ( 2 hots, Neutral and equipment Ground. Also installed 2 8 foot ground rods and connected that to the sun panel..
I'm guessing this service was hooked up 20+ years ago.
There is no Earth Ground connected inside the actual Service Panel itself. The only earth Ground wires is there 2 earth Ground wires coming out of the ground and 1 goes inside the meter can and the other up top by the weather head and is connected to the neutral there.
So should I still have an earth Ground connected to the actual service panel as well?
If so I can get that installed. Cause usually I do see the earth Ground connected just to the service panel.

 

[Fred B]

If the service drop is made within a metal conduit, some POCO will want the conduit bonded at the top and bottom and not actually the GEC connection. POCO lineman explanation to me was it is treated similar to EGC to provide for a low resistance return path for a short circuit.

 

[cgamad550]

Ok so I guess the main question is do I need to install 2 8foot ground rods and install and earth Ground directly inside the service panel? Or is this properly grounded as it stands?

 

[LarryFine]

Ok so I guess the main question is do I need to install 2 8foot ground rods and install and earth Ground directly inside the service panel? Or is this properly grounded as it stands?

It's good as is; in some ways, better.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Ok so I guess the main question is do I need to install 2 8foot ground rods and install and earth Ground directly inside the service panel? Or is this properly grounded as it stands?

I know you are an apprentice and it is great that you are seeking help and trying to understand what you see. I just don't understand why on post 17 you are asking the same question again which has been answered many times thru this thread. I hope you have finally gotten an answer.

I will add one more anecdote..........The grounding electrode conductor does not ever need to go to any subpanel within the same building. You can have 10 subpanels and the grounding electrode conductor only needs to be installed at one location at the service.

 

[Fred B]

The bonding for the conduit and GEC connecting to the Ground rods are two separate things, but if you have 2 ground rods that are connected to the service mast and at the utilities grounded conductor at the top of mast as indicated, no other bonding required. Your Load center would only have the ungrounded and grounded conductor entering the Load center and not any GEC. All EGC would still terminate as normally seen when the GEC is in side the Load center.