Need NEC Explanation for outlet neeed
- Thread starter klondike
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jwelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
Re: Need NEC Explanation for outlet neeed
2005 code 210.52 (A)(2)(3) The space afforded by fixed room dividers such as freestanding bar-type counters or railings
edited had to many (3)s
[ March 30, 2005, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]
2005 code 210.52 (A)(2)(3) The space afforded by fixed room dividers such as freestanding bar-type counters or railings
edited had to many (3)s
[ March 30, 2005, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]
physis
Senior Member
Re: Need NEC Explanation for outlet neeed
I think it's over kill. The receptacle in the floor could easily be more dangerous than none at all. If arc fault gadgets would be needed anywhere it would be there, but strangely it doesn't seem to be an issue there. I don't think the requirement is even within the perview of the NEC. I know we shouldn't use cords for electricity but give me a break.
My good friends at CMP 2 are going to eventually drive their boat right into a big rock one day.
I think it's over kill. The receptacle in the floor could easily be more dangerous than none at all. If arc fault gadgets would be needed anywhere it would be there, but strangely it doesn't seem to be an issue there. I don't think the requirement is even within the perview of the NEC. I know we shouldn't use cords for electricity but give me a break.
My good friends at CMP 2 are going to eventually drive their boat right into a big rock one day.
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Need NEC Explanation for outlet neeed
Nobody says that you have to plug anything into it. If you don't like it...don't use it.
Nobody says that you have to plug anything into it. If you don't like it...don't use it.
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: Need NEC Explanation for outlet neeed
Are you saying that running a cord to this location is meeting 90.1?
Are you saying that running a cord to this location is meeting 90.1?
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Need NEC Explanation for outlet neeed
We do one model that has a railing, that starts from the top of the stairway and ends on a wall
that is adjacent to a bedroom door.The railing measures 12 ft 4 ins. and the door trim is 1 in. from the corner that the railing meets
.So no matter what you do you can`t get the required within 6 ft.Most of the inspectors know the situation and allow 1 floor box and give us the few inches short.This in a loft area that acceses 3 bedrooms.
Along came my favorite inspector Oh no !!!
$30.oo red tag this is on a final so carpeted , trimmed out.Add a second floor box is his response before he slaps the tag in the permit box and drives away.This railing is at the very top of the stairs and is in essence to me a hall,sure someone could put a couch against it and have to squeeze by it as they come up the stairs.So we retro a 2nd floor box.B.T.W. we eat the cost of the first now eat the cost of the second (Code requirement)So now the home owner has 2 floor boxes that they don`t want in the first place.When bid the estimator didn`t see the railing on the print and priced it as if a standard knee wall 2 regular receptacles.But the floor box specs say brass cover so we can`t use a pvc cover.Can`t change the bid either.Best part of this sad story is this is one of the most popular models.2 story 4,350 sq ft. home with this grand curved staircase for under $500,000.00
We do one model that has a railing, that starts from the top of the stairway and ends on a wall
that is adjacent to a bedroom door.The railing measures 12 ft 4 ins. and the door trim is 1 in. from the corner that the railing meets
.So no matter what you do you can`t get the required within 6 ft.Most of the inspectors know the situation and allow 1 floor box and give us the few inches short.This in a loft area that acceses 3 bedrooms.Along came my favorite inspector
Oh no !!!$30.oo red tag this is on a final so carpeted , trimmed out.Add a second floor box is his response before he slaps the tag in the permit box and drives away.This railing is at the very top of the stairs and is in essence to me a hall,sure someone could put a couch against it and have to squeeze by it as they come up the stairs.So we retro a 2nd floor box.B.T.W. we eat the cost of the first now eat the cost of the second (Code requirement)So now the home owner has 2 floor boxes that they don`t want in the first place.When bid the estimator didn`t see the railing on the print and priced it as if a standard knee wall 2 regular receptacles.But the floor box specs say brass cover so we can`t use a pvc cover.Can`t change the bid either.Best part of this sad story is this is one of the most popular models.2 story 4,350 sq ft. home with this grand curved staircase for under $500,000.00
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Need NEC Explanation for outlet neeed
just a trip problem Lets see a floor box in the middle of a walk area lamp cord in same area.Oh safe yeah !!!!!!!!!!!!!
just a trip problem
Lets see a floor box in the middle of a walk area lamp cord in same area.Oh safe yeah !!!!!!!!!!!!! Re: Need NEC Explanation for outlet neeed
You are not the first one to encounter a crazy inspector. If your building inspection office has more than one electrical inspector you should be able to get a second opinion.
Every once in while you get somebody who is trying to hose you so sometimes it helps to get a second opinion.
In some places if the architect or engineer put it on the print you have to install it no matter how rediculous. I washed my hands of one job at the end of February partly because we got stuck with an obsolete 120 volt pool light. One problem is that any underwater light that is not fiber optic is a DINOSAUR! Another problem is that it was in a health care facility and we cannot get UL listed brass conduit. What finally got me hosed off was that the grounding terminal in the forming shell was installed backwards 2 different ways. The result was a terminal that could not accept #8 stranded and did not have enough wire bending space.
Every price job gets screwed up like this because every cheapskate and cheatskate cannot resist a "bargain". As a result, we get stuck with obsolete stuff and crap bought on closeout.
We also had another job where the HVAC contractor went behind the dealer's back and changed the voltage on the HVAC units from 480 volts to 208 volts. He then forged a print to show that the voltage was 208 volts. We still have not figured out how he did that but in addition to check washing there is also building print washing. We did not discover this until 5 of the 6 HVAC units were already on the roof. It does not matter that 277 volts hurts more than 120 volts when you touch it.
You are not the first one to encounter a crazy inspector. If your building inspection office has more than one electrical inspector you should be able to get a second opinion.
Every once in while you get somebody who is trying to hose you so sometimes it helps to get a second opinion.
In some places if the architect or engineer put it on the print you have to install it no matter how rediculous. I washed my hands of one job at the end of February partly because we got stuck with an obsolete 120 volt pool light. One problem is that any underwater light that is not fiber optic is a DINOSAUR! Another problem is that it was in a health care facility and we cannot get UL listed brass conduit. What finally got me hosed off was that the grounding terminal in the forming shell was installed backwards 2 different ways. The result was a terminal that could not accept #8 stranded and did not have enough wire bending space.
Every price job gets screwed up like this because every cheapskate and cheatskate cannot resist a "bargain". As a result, we get stuck with obsolete stuff and crap bought on closeout.
We also had another job where the HVAC contractor went behind the dealer's back and changed the voltage on the HVAC units from 480 volts to 208 volts. He then forged a print to show that the voltage was 208 volts. We still have not figured out how he did that but in addition to check washing there is also building print washing. We did not discover this until 5 of the 6 HVAC units were already on the roof. It does not matter that 277 volts hurts more than 120 volts when you touch it.
physis
Senior Member
Re: Need NEC Explanation for outlet neeed
Ryan,
I agree that an extension cord isn't the best solution. I just think that "there absolutely must be a receptacle everywhere" goes too far. In a lot of cases where a railing intersects a wall an exception for 8 feet of so would seem reasonable.
I get the impression that some of these requirements don't have exceptions, partly, in an attempt to influence the architecture. In some ways I actully think that's good. But at the same time I don't like it.
I don't have a problem with a receptacle every 12 feet. What bothers me is when there's a goofy situation and there's no leaway.
If it "really" is a safty issue then I'm just fine with it.
Ryan,
I agree that an extension cord isn't the best solution. I just think that "there absolutely must be a receptacle everywhere" goes too far. In a lot of cases where a railing intersects a wall an exception for 8 feet of so would seem reasonable.
I get the impression that some of these requirements don't have exceptions, partly, in an attempt to influence the architecture. In some ways I actully think that's good. But at the same time I don't like it.
I don't have a problem with a receptacle every 12 feet. What bothers me is when there's a goofy situation and there's no leaway.
If it "really" is a safty issue then I'm just fine with it.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Need NEC Explanation for outlet neeed
Sam I have brought up required receptacles before and was well bashed
Sam I have brought up required receptacles before and was well bashed
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: Need NEC Explanation for outlet neeed
Well, sharpen that proposal pencil!
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: Need NEC Explanation for outlet neeed
Originally posted by allenwayne:
Sam I have brought up required receptacles before and was well bashed
Dare I ask why they couldn't be in the wall?
[ March 31, 2005, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: Need NEC Explanation for outlet neeed
Yes, John, it is.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: Need NEC Explanation for outlet neeed
Here is a few that Carlon makes that we use. Some are drop in so you only need to feed the wire to it and install the box and receptacle on the trim.
Carlon Floor Box's
Here is a few that Carlon makes that we use. Some are drop in so you only need to feed the wire to it and install the box and receptacle on the trim.
Carlon Floor Box's
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Need NEC Explanation for outlet neeed
Wayne i brought that web page to the purchasing agent / the owner and he knocked it down seems he has worked a deal where he gets the round Carlon boxes for free when he buys the plates from them (buying power kin of like the big O)
Also gets par lamps for free when he buys the cans and trims from one supplier.I remember his brother go off the deep end about 4 YEARS AGO WHEN I WENT TO TRIM OUT THIS MONSTER HOUSE I HAD WIRED 32,000 SQ. FT. and the ware house had less than 50 bulbs in stock.I went to him and said I have 495 cans to trim out and there are 50 bulbs in stock and these are all 16 ft ceilings He sent a warehouse man to Graybar to get all the bulbs that they had.He giggled that he wanted to hear his brother scream when he got the invoice I`ll remember that day for as long as i live.
Wayne i brought that web page to the purchasing agent / the owner and he knocked it down seems he has worked a deal where he gets the round Carlon boxes for free when he buys the plates from them (buying power kin of like the big O)
Also gets par lamps for free when he buys the cans and trims from one supplier.I remember his brother go off the deep end about 4 YEARS AGO WHEN I WENT TO TRIM OUT THIS MONSTER HOUSE I HAD WIRED 32,000 SQ. FT. and the ware house had less than 50 bulbs in stock.I went to him and said I have 495 cans to trim out and there are 50 bulbs in stock and these are all 16 ft ceilings
He sent a warehouse man to Graybar to get all the bulbs that they had.He giggled that he wanted to hear his brother scream when he got the invoice I`ll remember that day for as long as i live.- Status