Need some advice

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Oakey

Oakey

Senior Member
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New Jersey
Hello all, I have a customer who has just sold their home. Previously I had done the Kitchen/service for them and the house has some leftover knob and tube in the walls, mostly the second floor and it remains since the construction had nothing to do with those areas.
The customer has asked me for a letter for the real estate sale stating that there is no danger from this type of wiring and is safe to sell the home with it. Ive never done this before, does anyone have any previous experience with this and what would you do or how to word it? I really appreciate any help, thx.
 
Oakey said:
Hello all, I have a customer who has just sold their home. Previously I had done the Kitchen/service for them and the house has some leftover knob and tube in the walls, mostly the second floor and it remains since the construction had nothing to do with those areas.
The customer has asked me for a letter for the real estate sale stating that there is no danger from this type of wiring and is safe to sell the home with it. Ive never done this before, does anyone have any previous experience with this and what would you do or how to word it? I really appreciate any help, thx.
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Dont you hate those kind of questions? You know the answer......Mentally put yourself in a court room trying to explain your actions, after there has been a fire and someone dies....I know thats extreeme, but point is, dont put your self at risk with these kinds of statements. Old K&T is Old K&T, and at best you could say its in fair shape for its age, or something like that, IF that's the truth.
 
K&T isn't safe unless it's GFCI protected. Offer to do the installation for a price, then write the letter. Otherwise, forget it.
 
I'd just tell them that isn't a service that you offer. That's a home inspectors job. We build to code. Judging whether a old install is safe is a judgement call. Not something I'd put in writing.
 
Turn it around on her and decline, you can say that your licensed for electrical work and that does not quailify you to set this presidence for existing work that you had no part of.

That as licensed, if you where to touch it that you'd have to bring it up to Code and that by Code it was good the day it was installed.

That this statement on your part will not over-ride a home inspection (if caught).

Don't become part of her liability. JMO
 
Mule said:
Dont you hate those kind of questions? You know the answer......Mentally put yourself in a court room trying to explain your actions, after there has been a fire and someone dies....I know thats extreeme, but point is, dont put your self at risk with these kinds of statements. Old K&T is Old K&T, and at best you could say its in fair shape for its age, or something like that, IF that's the truth.
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Mule you are 100% right
 
1) Never assume that liability. Your insurance carrier will probably decline a claim for that because it is not work that you performed and you were offering a professional opinion which is only covered under E&O insurance, not just the liability insurance that you probably carry.

2) You will be the scapegoat and this will cause problems if the buyers get a home inspection. If the inspector just writes it up as a concern and recommends upgrade (K&T is not a defect unless it has defects) and they show your letter to the buyer YOU are now considered the expert and you now have the liability monkey on your back. Great way to lose your shirt.
 
ivsenroute said:
1) Never assume that liability. Your insurance carrier will probably decline a claim for that because it is not work that you performed and you were offering a professional opinion which is only covered under E&O insurance, not just the liability insurance that you probably carry.
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What is E&O insurrance?
 
frankft2000 said:
What is E&O insurance?
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Errors and Omissions insurance


What is Errors & Omissions Insurance?
Errors and Omissions Insurance protects your company from claims if your client holds you responsible for errors, or the failure of your work to perform as promised in your contract.

Coverage includes legal defense costs - no matter how baseless the allegations. Errors and Omissions Insurance will pay for any resulting judgments against you, including court costs, up to the coverage limits on your policy.

Errors & Omissions Insurance coverage extends to both W2 employees and 1099 subcontractors, and can be worldwide in scope.
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I agree with mule and I like iwires responce. I don't see how a gfi would make knob and tube safe I think you would have better luck with an arc fault?
 
Oakey said:
The customer has asked me for a letter for the real estate sale stating that there is no danger from this type of wiring and is safe to sell the home with it.
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I will bet that letter is for the insurance company so they can insure the house. Some insurance companies required a letter from a master electrician stating that the wiring is safe before they will insure.

The way I figure it is if the insurance company wants an opinion on the wiring they can send their own expert out to judge the condition of the wiring and I'm not getting involved. Why would I want the liability for such a letter for a few bucks.

Give them a letter stating that everything that you did at the property is safe and up to code ( having passed inspection ) and that's all you can say.
 
The GFCI for safety is from Art 210-7(d)(3) in pre-'02 NECs & 406.3(D)(3) in recent NECs. When I'm asked if an electrical system is safe I don't look at it from the perspective of "it passed inspection when it was built". I look at it as safe if it would pass inspection today by the AHJ as a complete remodel.

As stated by others, the HO is probably looking for a letter rubber-stamp for a minimum fee. I'd offer the repairs/upgrades.
 
Thx guys great advice! I believe it is for the "insurance company" which makes me hesitate from the start. Ive heard of guys who provide such letters in my area for sales of homes with some sort of vague wording like " at time of inspection" etc.
I don't think its worth it, seems to be to open ended. If insurance companies do require this type of letter wouldn't an electrician be the one to provide it?
 
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ivsenroute said:
1) Never assume that liability. Your insurance carrier will probably decline a claim for that because it is not work that you performed and you were offering a professional opinion which is only covered under E&O insurance, not just the liability insurance that you probably carry.

2) You will be the scapegoat and this will cause problems if the buyers get a home inspection. If the inspector just writes it up as a concern and recommends upgrade (K&T is not a defect unless it has defects) and they show your letter to the buyer YOU are now considered the expert and you now have the liability monkey on your back. Great way to lose your shirt.
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E&O underwriters will not allow you to expose yourself to open liability situations, and if you do they will drop you in a heart beat.


"You will be the scapegoat and this will cause problems if the buyers get a home inspection. If the inspector just writes it up as a concern and recommends upgrade (K&T is not a defect unless it has defects) and they show your letter to the buyer YOU are now considered the expert and you now have the liability monkey on your back. Great way to lose your shirt"
 
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