Need some help with Romex (again)

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If the interior of a box mounted on an outside wall is considered an exterior location, how do you install a main panel outside? All your home-runs are in UF? I think not.

The interior of a WP box is not a damp or wet location. Only raceways are. 300.9.
 
cmreschke said:
The situation I believe it not to be a violation would be a box already installed in brick where you can terminate said cable and then hang device or fixture within minutes of installing cable or you pit a wp plate on the box that is only way I can think of to not be violated for this rule again it is retarted
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Wow, how much time do you have to carry the cable from truck (better not be in open back) or van to the construction site before the cable is contaminated with the outdoors?

texie said:
I would agree that this is technically correct under the new rules that spell out that the interior of raceways, etc are wet locations. I've not yet seen it enforced in our area AHJ's.
Jumper raises a good point about 3R load centers. Come to think of it, it raises all kinds of questions....wire nuts, terminals, etc. Where does all this end?
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What new rules? Inside of exterior raceways have been a wet location for a very long time.

Whether or not NM is permitted to supply flush or even surface boxes with feed entering the back has been debated here before with no definite consensus of right or wrong.

Some AHJ permit this, some don't.
 
480sparky said:
If the interior of a box mounted on an outside wall is considered an exterior location, how do you install a main panel outside? All your home-runs are in UF? I think not.

The interior of a WP box is not a damp or wet location. Only raceways are. 300.9.
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That is what i thought...:thumbsup:
 
kwired said:
Wow, how much time do you have to carry the cable from truck (better not be in open back) or van to the construction site before the cable is contaminated with the outdoors?

It should be manufactured on site in completely enclosed and weather proof house
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Lots of things are done all the time but are not compliant. We install nm to an a/c disconnect. The disconnect is not a raceway so the nm wire is fine, IMO. I agree that this issue is arguable but so is nm cable in a damp crawlspace. IMO, they need to change NM to be suitable for damp location and have the manufacturers use a conductor with a "W" - they probably already do .
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Lots of things are done all the time but are not compliant. We install nm to an a/c disconnect. The disconnect is not a raceway so the nm wire is fine, IMO. I agree that this issue is arguable but so is nm cable in a damp crawlspace. IMO, they need to change NM to be suitable for damp location and have the manufacturers use a conductor with a "W" - they probably already do .
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My guess is that as long as there is paper filler inside the jacket, it will always be dry location only.
 
Thanks all who replied.
But my question was a bit different.
I don't have a problem using UF cable for this particular application I'm doing right now.
My question was whether I can just "poke" the UF through the mason block, or do I need to sleeve it?
Code says something like UF can be run through masonry, but not through concrete.
The thing is every time I penetrate masonry blocks, the blocks have to be patched back, which material used to patch said block is .... concrete (or a form of it).
I know the same thing would apply to when I recess a box in the mason block and 5-6 inches of rommex go inside the block and get patched around. I always duct taped the area of rommex that went inside the block (subject to be patched) and I never had a problem with inspections.... SO FAR:)
I know it's a whole world of difference between having 4-5 inches patched over with concrete and having 20-30 feet of rommex embedded in concrete, but NEC doesn't seem to diferentiate on that.

Strife said:
Ok, so I got the part where if I go outside the building I need to use UF cable, even if it's just going into a box outside(right from behind the wall), or even if I sleeve it 2-3' down the outside wall.
I'm doing a house right now that has 6 sliding doors, each with 2 lights and a receptacle outside. Walls are mason blocks.
Can I just install the UF cable through the wall into the box outside? Untill now I had mostly places where I had one or two boxes outside, so it wasn't a big deal to install a short piece of conduit through the block and sleeve the rommex. But with 20 on this job I'd like to be able to just install the UF through the wall. Not to mention 4-5 of the mason blocks between the windows and doors are only 14" wide, so in order to make room for the conduit sweep I'd need break the blocks quite a bit. I'd rather just make a 1/2" hole.
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cmreschke said:
... for the same reason you could not rough a house without a finished roof and similar protection from the outdoor elements.
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You need to reread the definition of a dry location. It is acceptable to install romex in a building that is not total enclosed during construction.

Location, Dry.​
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A location not normally subject to dampness or wetness. A location classified as dry may be temporarily subject to dampness or wetness, as in the case of a
building under construction.
​
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what requirements need to be met in order for you to rough a house? Eg... Do you need to have a shingles completed roof. In metro Detroit Michigan it is required before you can pull a stitch of romex to have a completed roof?
 
cmreschke said:
what requirements need to be met in order for you to rough a house? Eg... Do you need to have a shingles completed roof. In metro Detroit Michigan it is required before you can pull a stitch of romex to have a completed roof?
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sounds like you already know what?s needed. Same here for the most part. I?ve seen idiots sneak :happysad::thumbsdown:and rough them in before the roof is dry rocked. ?Anyone say dripping recess cans!":thumbsdown:
 
cmreschke said:
So then what is the violation? Nec does not state that it has to have roof?
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It's not an NEC issue. But many AHJs adopt local rules about installing NM before the structure is 'closed in'. I have a couple cities where I can't install NM when it's below 35?F.
 
480sparky said:
It's not an NEC issue. But many AHJs adopt local rules about installing NM before the structure is 'closed in'. I have a couple cities where I can't install NM when it's below 35?F.
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You sure that isn't just because the inspector won't come out if it is below 35?F?:D
 
My question was whether I can just "poke" the UF through the mason block, or do I need to sleeve it?

Here's the skinny (but you probably have read your book by now):334.10 (A)(2), 334.12(9), 340.10(3), 340.12(8). You can poke it through and you can sleeve it, although you don't have to sleeve it.
 
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