NEM

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electro7

Senior Member
Location
Northern CA, US
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Electrician, Solar and Electrical Contractor
I was wondering about NEM in other states. I am in CA and we are going through a fight to try and keep it to some level.

I heard Florida just passed a bill that changed the NEM there. Does anybody know in Florida what it is now- the credited amount you receive as a homeowner when your excess solar goes back to the grid?

Didn't Texas do a similar thing?

I know in Arizona solar was hot until the utility companies put a kibosh to NEM.

Anybody here solar contractors in these areas? If so, is solar still going strong?

Is storage being implemented to help grid and solar consumption?

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Net Energy Metering. The utility monitors usage from the grid and excess solar from the home back to the grid.

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electro7 said:
I was wondering about NEM in other states. I am in CA and we are going through a fight to try and keep it to some level.

I heard Florida just passed a bill that changed the NEM there. Does anybody know in Florida what it is now- the credited amount you receive as a homeowner when your excess solar goes back to the grid?

Didn't Texas do a similar thing?

I know in Arizona solar was hot until the utility companies put a kibosh to NEM.

Anybody here solar contractors in these areas? If so, is solar still going strong?

Is storage being implemented to help grid and solar consumption?

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
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Texas has not done anything statewide to change or regulate net metering. Each utility/AHJ has its own policy and there is a lot of variability.
 
We don’t do any net metering at all. Unless the feds get involved no utility will net meter.
Net metering is unfair to those that own and maintain the infrastructure.
You wouldn’t make bread all day and sell your excess to the grocery store for retail only to go back and get different bread when you need it without paying the grocery store anything would you?
 
Hv&Lv said:
We don’t do any net metering at all. Unless the feds get involved no utility will net meter.
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I'm sure the feds were involved, but Duke Energy has me (Greenville SC) on a residential net metering schedule. ISTR that you are in southeastern NC with a co-op; at least one near us won't allow residential solar of any form. My wife's 1st cousin in Seneca would very much like some connected solar, but it isn't allowed.
Hv&Lv said:
Net metering is unfair to those that own and maintain the infrastructure.
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I agree 100%. That the guvmint forced it on them is a real shame, but without it, there is no payback for a home. I'm not sure at our rates in general in the Carolinas that it would be economical without it. I know I pass many "solar farms" driving the highways, so it is obviously economical for some.
Hv&Lv said:
You wouldn’t make bread all day and sell your excess to the grocery store for retail only to go back and get different bread when you need it without paying the grocery store anything would you?
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You know the guvmint's way of course; this isn't political, but the Robin Hood principal applies, as it must. But taking from private industry to help those of us who don't NEED it is just a Christmas gift. Regretfully, a better system is unknown to me.
 
We pay avoided wholesale rate to all exported power, with the exception of peak hour exports, which pay a premium.
 
Hv&Lv said:
We don’t do any net metering at all. Unless the feds get involved no utility will net meter.
Net metering is unfair to those that own and maintain the infrastructure.
You wouldn’t make bread all day and sell your excess to the grocery store for retail only to go back and get different bread when you need it without paying the grocery store anything would you?
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Absolute fairness does not exist. What's fair and what's not depends entirely upon whom you ask.
 
You might look at what is happening inside CA other than the big 3 IOUs. SMUD for instance just ended the NEM program for its new PV customers. Starting last month new PV interconnections have no NEM tariff. The customer is paid a flat rate of $0.074/kWhr for any energy exported, any time of the day any day of the year. The customer is on TOU where they might be paying 4X that much for the same energy. This makes PV in their territory worth about half of what it was two months ago. It's a good deal for the utility though, they pay me 7.4 cents and sell the kWhr to my neighbor for 32 cents. That's fair, right? Someone has to pay for that wire from my house to the pole and then to my neighbor. :cool:
 
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Not having Net Metering is fine with me but to tell me I can't have solar doesn't seem right. At that point Id consider having them disconnect me and going off-grid with batteries and not pay an electric bill the rest of my life!:)

Very interesting to hear what utilities are doing across the nation. Thanks for the replies!

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pv_n00b said:
You might look at what is happening inside CA other than the big 3 IOUs. SMUD for instance just ended the NEM program for its new PV customers. Starting last month new PV interconnections have no NEM tariff. The customer is paid a flat rate of $0.074/kWhr for any energy exported. This makes PV in their territory worth about half of what it was two months ago.
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How often is it trued up, or does the meter just register kWh at one rate forward and the other backward in real time?
 
electro7 said:
Not having Net Metering is fine with me but to tell me I can't have solar doesn't seem right. At that point Id consider having them disconnect me and going off-grid with batteries and not pay an electric bill the rest of my life!:)
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If you are willing to pay $1.00 per kWh I guess you could do that.
 
There is no easy one size fits all answer. Part if me feels net metering is similar to having a customer supply all of the material for a project. Most contractors would not want to charge their normal hourly rate. Most customers might be able to afford more or larger projects if they did not have to pay contractor's material markup.
 
Ggunn, have you done the math, is that what it comes out to be? I haven't done the math, and I'm sure it's different for different load profiles, but that seems high.

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electro7 said:
Not having Net Metering is fine with me but to tell me I can't have solar doesn't seem right. At that point Id consider having them disconnect me and going off-grid with batteries and not pay an electric bill the rest of my life!:)

Very interesting to hear what utilities are doing across the nation. Thanks for the replies!

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk
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NEM still makes a huge difference in the financial decision for adding solar. There are a few people who would put in a PV system even if it did not save them money but it's a much much smaller market. Most PV work would dry up without NEM and most PV installers would go out of business. The hope was that by the time NEM was on the way out the cost of distributed PV would be low enough to be self-sustaining. But we have not reached that point yet and all indicators are we will not reach it in the US. Our costs are just too high.
It seems to me like the future of solar power is going to be in utility scale solar, not distributed solar.
 
electro7 said:
Ggunn, have you done the math, is that what it comes out to be? I haven't done the math, and I'm sure it's different for different load profiles, but that seems high.

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To go off-grid your PV system has to be sized to meet demand at the crossing point of the highest demand with the lowest solar insolation of the year unless you want to depend on a generator that you run for many days during the year. This usually means a PV array that is about 3X as large as the one you need for a grid-tied NEM system. That is a huge price increase, and also would not fit on most home roofs. So you are looking at a ground mount taking up your backyard. The battery size also needs to be significantly larger than the backup-rated batteries on a grid-connected system.
 
electro7 said:
Ggunn, have you done the math, is that what it comes out to be? I haven't done the math, and I'm sure it's different for different load profiles, but that seems high.

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Actually, I did the math some time ago; things may be different now, though I did not mean for my number to be taken as an absolute. What I am confident of is that when you figure in the cost of the equipment, the cost of the installation, and replacement costs for the equipment as it wears out, plus the headroom you need to supply your highest momentary demand, you won't be able to sustainably generate your own electricity with a standalone system of PV and batteries anywhere nearly as cheaply as you can buy it from the utility if it is available where you are.
 
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pv_n00b said:
No true up, they just pay for what you export.
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In real time? That is, do you mean that if you export a kWh they credit you for it immediately at the lower rate and then charge you the higher rate when you draw it back out? If so, that's a case for installing batteries.
 
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