Nema 8536 Square D Motor Starter

[Drod04Mustang]

Ok guys im lost. Here is a a fresh page of what wires go where and left blank on what goes to what. I dont know who installed the previous system but I want to do correctly and am open to what works well.

 

[Krusscher]

I am honestly not sure how else to explain it. try to redraw it by going through post 35 and 40. I am not sure how you came to drawing it out like you did. the running contacts (2 and 3) on the side of the starter should be Normally Open (NO). redraw it and post it and we can go from there.

 

[Krusscher]

you have the overload correct on the chlorine pump and thats how the well pump should be as well.

 

[Krusscher]

I added some labels to post 40 that might help

 

[Drod04Mustang]

Ok guys im lost. Here is a a fresh page of what wires go where and left blank on what goes to what. I dont know who installed the previous system but I want to do correctly and am open to what works well.

I am honestly not sure how else to explain it. try to redraw it by going through post 35 and 40. I am not sure how you came to drawing it out like you did. the running contacts (2 and 3) on the side of the starter should be Normally Open (NO). redraw it and post it and we can go from there.

the red wires are just how the motor starter has the wires wired. The way i drew it is without any connections made except for the red wires that go through the back of the motor starter.

 

[Krusscher]

the red wires are just how the motor starter has the wires wired. The way i drew it is without any connections made except for the red wires that go through the back of the motor starter.

I don't see how the well pump could start like that with the coil wires both coming from the overload contact, unless that's not what that is.

 

[kwired]

In the original drawing the disconnect for the well pump is in between the starter and the motor not before the starter. So even witht eh disconnect off there would be power to the starters.
The chlorine pump sounds like it is pulling in just not at the right time.

A disconnect at the motor yes. You do need one for the controller as well. The only way to assure the chlorine pump doesn't run if that motor disconnect gets shut off is with an aux contact in that disconnect or even using a current sensing relay on the well conductors to control the chlorine pump would not let it run for most possible failure modes.

Apparently the well motor is not within sight of the controller and controller disconnect is why there is an additional disconnect before the motor?

 

[Drod04Mustang]

So I phoned it in to my professor from Journeyman Apprenticship program and this all I had to do. The reason it wasnt working the way it was origianlyy was because it needed to be on a different pahse for the coil to work. THanks everyone for their help and input learned alot. Here is a pic of how it is wire and working correctly.

 

[ptonsparky]

That made it 'work'. It is not done correctly.

 

[kwired]

So I phoned it in to my professor from Journeyman Apprenticship program and this all I had to do. The reason it wasnt working the way it was origianlyy was because it needed to be on a different pahse for the coil to work. THanks everyone for their help and input learned alot. Here is a pic of how it is wire and working correctly.

At one point I considered asking if you had both control supply conductors on different phase, yet looking at your drawings I never saw it drawn in a way that wouldn't work, even if not the greatest method of doing this.

Do you have both control leads coming from the same circuit? I have seen cases where two items are interlocked in some way where they take one control line from one branch and the other from the other branch. This leaves you with possible voltage coming via the control circuit when you shut one item off to work in the control cabinet. Been guys done this on 480 volt control circuits interlocking a well and irrigation center pivot. Shut the well off to work on it and you still have a 277 volt to ground control lead in the pump panel or vice versa - not good to discover the hard way.

 

[Krusscher]

That made it 'work'. It is not done correctly.

i agree this doesn't look right the way its drawn but what more can we do I guess?

 

[ptonsparky]

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/0140ct9201-141018220155-conversion-gate01/95/elec-machine-51-638.jpg?cb=1413669771

Suggest a controls class?

i agree this doesn't look right the way its drawn but what more can we do I guess?

 

[Krusscher]

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/0140ct9201-141018220155-conversion-gate01/95/elec-machine-51-638.jpg?cb=1413669771

Suggest a controls class?

not a bad idea for him, seems like he may have been thrown into a industrial situation without much industrial experience, which is how my career started but I was working under a few masters/journeyman.

 

[Drod04Mustang]

not a bad idea for him, seems like he may have been thrown into a industrial situation without much industrial experience, which is how my career started but I was working under a few masters/journeyman.

Yes this is my first time working with motor starters. I did new residential construction and commerical office buildings mainly but this a a old 100 year old canning factory and they were down for 1.5 years. 500 Nema 0 Motor Starters, 15 nema 3 motor starters, 50 nema 2 motor starters, 1000 Electric motors, 1200 Breakers. The old 63 year old electrician did not train anyone and the maintenance supervisor had issues concerning not help anyone or labeling anything buttons wires everything. There was a power struggle between the Maintenace supervisor and the previous owners.. I knew it was something small that but i did not want to risk burning anything up so my questions on here were just trying to get some good info from people who have been out in the field. Well 1(not well 2 the one i asked for help on) burned up. I noticed that the the heaters on the motor starter were for a 80 amp motor as opposed to a 60 amp which is should of had. The guys that were here before me would say just move up in breaker. Example from a 2 pole 20 amp 3phase and they would put in a 30 amp 2 pole 3phase to make it to stop from tripping. Or move to a 40 amp. Lol. I try to be thorough in my troubleshooting techniques and i began here to broaden my knowledge. Most people will not let you go into a industrial job unless you have some knowledge. Mind you I was told I would just be changing 1 hp motors, 20 amp 3phase breaker and small stuff like that you know. But here I was thrown into VFD(which are cool a shit) and motor starters(which a cool too)

 

[Drod04Mustang]

not a bad idea for him, seems like he may have been thrown into a industrial situation without much industrial experience, which is how my career started but I was working under a few masters/journeyman.

No masters or journeyman here. In it alone for now. So walking back and forth to check breakers gets tedious but Im learning.

 

[Krusscher]

Alright just be super cautious and try to learn about controls any way possible. Teaching yourself may lead to bad habits. Like myself and Tom said, we don't think you quite got that wired correctly judging by your drawing.

 

[Drod04Mustang]

Alright just be super cautious and try to learn about controls any way possible. Teaching yourself may lead to bad habits. Like myself and Tom said, we don't think you quite got that wired correctly judging by your drawing.

Oh poopy diaper. I uploaded wrong drawing. Sorry.

 

[ptonsparky]

Oh poopy diaper. I uploaded wrong drawing. Sorry.

Coming from the load side of a starter is not the proper way to interlock a motor. It works, but not correctly.

 

[Krusscher]

also your over load contact should be wired the same on the well contactor as it is on chlorine pump. I am not sure how you are going from line 2 to your pressure switch and then to line 1, that would cause a short and obviously that isn't happening so you must just have it drawn wrong?

 

[Drod04Mustang]

also your over load contact should be wired the same on the well contactor as it is on chlorine pump. I am not sure how you are going from line 2 to your pressure switch and then to line 1, that would cause a short and obviously that isn't happening so you must just have it drawn wrong?