Nest T stat help

[romex jockey]

Sierra Sparky's suggestion for an transformer/relay is an excellent one. I don't share Hal's negativity.

Yeah, i'm literally taking notes from all you guys (thanks to you all) ,going to go back next week and give 'er a go, I've gotta few old trans/relays around, going to bring one.

As to all these 'smart' things , i'm an older spark out in Vermont who grew up with a corded phone, so they are all foreign and often frustrating to me , just turning this box on to communicate with you all was a major leap

But these smart stats are what a lot of 'out of state' customers want , and they're really good with those phones , so i'm trying to not be a dinosaur about it , but somewhat fear we're only a generation away from microchips in our gourds.....

Oh well ,maybe i can return the favor and show 'em how to properly dress and pluck a chicken.... ~RJ~

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Steve, Nest has good support so call them with your issues. Wait till you are on the job and they will talk you thru it

 

[romex jockey]

Thanks Den, i'm probably going to have to do that.....3+ decades in the trade, and i need tech support to wire a friggin' Tstat..... ~RJ~

 

[al hildenbrand]

Because I just don't see what the hype is all about. It's no better than a programmable thermostat as far as scheduling goes. But the techies don't want to be bothered programming it. I guess setting temperatures on the Nest when they want it to change isn't programming.

I totally don't see the functionality of the motion sensor. In my house the thermostats are in an upstairs bedroom for the 2nd floor zone and downstairs hallway for the first floor zone. People walk past them at random times all day. They can't "see" any other part of the house to detect if anyone is home. Maybe if the house were an open floor plan with the thermostat in a location that could see most of it... Besides, I have hydronic heat with cast iron radiators. Response is slow so simply adhering to a fixed daily schedule is the most energy efficient regardless of what Nest may think.

The Nest communicates with your cell to know (I guess through GPS) that you are away. Really? There are five people in my house. And Google probably keeps track of where you go.

You can control the Nest via an app on your cell. Who cares? Millennials who have their phones grafted to their hand, that's who.

Nope, I just don't see how it saves you anything over a regular programmable thermostat. Just another Dumb Home techie gadget.

-Hal

Hal, you sound like you have the answers you need for your home. That's fine. If you have a second home / cabin some ways away, Internet of Things based hardware is a way to remotely care for the property, and maybe that will be helpful, or you may choose to use another means of remote care.

But these smart stats are what a lot of 'out of state' customers want , and they're really good with those phones , so i'm trying to not be a dinosaur about it , but somewhat fear we're only a generation away from microchips in our gourds....

RJ, I think you state eloquently the tension that a lot of the older among us feel. I have recently come to the perspective that we are in a symbiotic relationship with various digital software based artificial intelligences (AI) that are all about us. There is a little tiny AI that defrosts a frozen food in a microwave, there is the phone based payment system's AI that helps accept payment or directs you to a real person, there is the AI that processes your search engine inquiry, there is the AI that administers the efficient running of your vehicle, there is the AI that administers a Turing Test to determine whether you are human or AI when you set up a new account or membership. . . ALL are "just enough" of an intelligence to provide for a quality of human ongoing experience of "living". There are countless additional examples of limited AIs aiding us in living, all around us, today, every day.

This symbiotic relationship is, not is becoming, but IS (in my opinion) much like the nitrogen-fixing bacteria that live in the nodules on the roots of legumes. Neither the bacterium nor the legume can live without the other. This is an Obligate EndoSymbiosis. Look it up.

Now, an AI becoming sentient. . .that's still coming, and will be a big deal, but it is the symbiosis NOW that is really interesting to be figuring out the moral, ethical, religious and legal meanings of.

 

[hbiss]

Thanks Den, i'm probably going to have to do that.....3+ decades in the trade, and i need tech support to wire a friggin' Tstat..... ~RJ~

That right there is the point! It's a friggin' Tstat!!! If NEST got off their friggin' Millennial business model asses and provided DOCUMENTATION for connection and programming like all the other LEGITIMATE thermostat manufacturers do there wouldn't be this problem. The fact that it uses AI and all the other crap has nothing to do with it. I don't care how it works, I don't own it, I'm only installing it for a customer. I'm not about to waste my time consulting a web site or calling tech support for what should be a 5 minute install of something I've been installing for years.

So the problem here is NOT about any new technology, it's all about how NEST and I guess Google chooses to support their product and who they market to. The NEST thermostat is definitely NOT aimed at the pro market where the HVAC and EC trades have been installing all kinds of T stats forever and can look at a wiring diagram and know right away what to do. The NEST is marketed to homeowners and DIYs hence the interactive website and videos. The money is with convincing homeowners and DIYs that the NEST is the best thing since sliced bread and Google is very, very good at things like that. The only reason we and the HVAC trades get into installing them is because customers ask for them. There are so many other professional options for the trades to sell.

The fact that Google bought NEST for a mere 3 million speaks volumes about it's worth.

-Hal

 

[al hildenbrand]

The only reason we and the HVAC trades get into installing them is because customers ask for them.

.................

"There goes my people. I must follow them, for I am their leader." -- Mahatma Ghandi

 

[zbang]

If NEST got off their friggin' Millennial business model asses and provided DOCUMENTATION for connection and programming like all the other LEGITIMATE thermostat manufacturers do there wouldn't be this problem.
[...]
The NEST thermostat is definitely NOT aimed at the pro market where the HVAC and EC trades have been installing all kinds of T stats forever and can look at a wiring diagram and know right away what to do.

Even companies that claim to produce for the "professional", "enterprise", or whatever, market are cutting down their docs, and that's if they have them at all. Often the so-called Quick Start guide only tells you how to mount the device and where to apply power. I've had $30k devices arrive with not more more than that, and the only doc I could find online was for the previous generation box.

There, end of my rant-of-the-day.

 

[curt swartz]

That right there is the point! It's a friggin' Tstat!!! If NEST got off their friggin' Millennial business model asses and provided DOCUMENTATION for connection and programming like all the other LEGITIMATE thermostat manufacturers do there wouldn't be this problem. The fact that it uses AI and all the other crap has nothing to do with it. I don't care how it works, I don't own it, I'm only installing it for a customer. I'm not about to waste my time consulting a web site or calling tech support for what should be a 5 minute install of something I've been installing for years.

So the problem here is NOT about any new technology, it's all about how NEST and I guess Google chooses to support their product and who they market to. The NEST thermostat is definitely NOT aimed at the pro market where the HVAC and EC trades have been installing all kinds of T stats forever and can look at a wiring diagram and know right away what to do. The NEST is marketed to homeowners and DIYs hence the interactive website and videos. The money is with convincing homeowners and DIYs that the NEST is the best thing since sliced bread and Google is very, very good at things like that. The only reason we and the HVAC trades get into installing them is because customers ask for them. There are so many other professional options for the trades to sell.

The fact that Google bought NEST for a mere 3 million speaks volumes about it's worth.

-Hal

It was actually $3.2 Billion

 

[al hildenbrand]

It's a friggin' Tstat!!!

Only a part of the Nest is a thermostat. It is much more than that, to the extent that each owner / occupant wants.

The hookup to the thermostat wiring is not different, and in a single stage heat only system is blisteringly simple. And the unit will work just fine without anything more than being allowed to be a "dumb" Internet-less thermostat, like a basic programmable setback that comes with a preinstalled program and the ability to remember recovery intervals, . . . . but it can be sooooo much more.

It's like you are saying that a Tesla Sportster is a horseless Model T carriage.

 

[Sierrasparky]

It was actually $3.2 Billion

Sorry I meant Billion.
I remember that- 3.2 billion . I was in the Nest booth at a trade show when it was announced.

 

[romex jockey]

Great replies fellas.

Yes i guess AI is here to stay , personally it's the 'back 9' of my career , so i just have to keep up for a little while longer

Is it all worth it? , dunno. In my mind 'KISS' things last longer, are easier, etc, but DO less

Fortunately i married a software engineer , my entire existence is a technological wonder

So i was sitting on the porch watching the geese armada land on the pond (it's nice out), sort of bantering what you fellas are sayin' here

I sez " You know, all this technology tells me i'm wrong' to my lovely other 1/2

there's a beat of silence...and

'well....you ARE you know'

~RJ~

 

[al hildenbrand]

Priceless, RJ. Thank you for the image.

 

[peter d]

A nest is the size of a hockey puck, which coincidentally is about all it's good for. In fact, the nest is preferably dealt with by hitting it directly into a concrete wall with a hockey stick.

I know for a fact that the Nest will not work on two separate systems which is common here where central a/c is added to a house with hydronic baseboard heat. We wasted almost an entire day trying to figure out why it would not work with both systems connected to it.

 

[Sierrasparky]

A nest is the size of a hockey puck, which coincidentally is about all it's good for. In fact, the nest is preferably dealt with by hitting it directly into a concrete wall with a hockey stick.

I know for a fact that the Nest will not work on two separate systems which is common here where central a/c is added to a house with hydronic baseboard heat. We wasted almost an entire day trying to figure out why it would not work with both systems connected to it.

Why won't it work. If there are two different control systems all you need is a control relay for one or the other to isolate the two systems.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Anyone else dealt with this?

any help appreciated

~RJ~

call up tech support when you are ready to install it.
they will talk you thru it.

at the risk of having people throw tomatoes at my post,
i have a nest. zero problems. i'm on a forced air heat,
so two wires does it. with AC, it'll run the blower a bit
after the compressor stops, so it gets the cold out of the
coil.

also have the smoke/CO detectors that link to the nest.
if you have a fire alarm, it turns off the forced air. when
you walk down the hall, the thing glows as a nightlight
for a minute or so.

it also works with the big azz fan, so the fan comes on slowly
and mixes the warm air in the master bedroom.

the registration of the device doesn't have a street address,
so nobody can tell you aren't home by hacking their server.
i also run a vpn on my home line, so the data from IOT stuff
comes from salt lake city.

it's adaptive, and tweaks and tunes your heating. sorta like
daylight harvesting for heat. when i first tried it, spouse was
skeptical till the first gas bill came in. it paid for itself in three
months.

the one thing that was funny, was the smoke detector put in the
garage. it didn't like it getting cold out there at night, and went
into test mode. put it in warm part of house, problem disappeared.

i'm not into the iOt stuff. i have a washer, dryer, refrigerator, and
stove that all want to log onto the net and work with an app.

none of them are hooked up. it's not important to me.

however, two of my cars send me emails saying all is well, or i need
to check something...... so i guess i'm an unrepentant sinner.

the cars are cool, as i can send an address to the gps from the phone,
and don't have to do the button dance in the car to enter it.

i don't give a chit if my vegetable crisper is at 33 degrees. if the brocolli
freezes, that is jills trauma. i don't do broccoli.

 

[romex jockey]

hack Fulthrotl ?

As in all this technology is 'watching' me

sheesh!!!


~RJ~