Neutral and its Balanced load

[Smart $]

Whats a voltage sink?

In the grand scheme of things, it has no voltage but conducts electricity.

 

[Smart $]

I am not seeing your point.

That's due to your self-conditioning. :wink:

You have to open your eyes to see.

 

[tallguy]

In the grand scheme of things, it has no voltage but conducts electricity.

I guess this was my point... arguments like this are bound to be all heat, and no light, for practical training.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

This thread has headed where I thought it would. There is more to a "neutral/neutral conductor" than just carrying current...

1. When is a grounded conductor a neutral?
2. When is a grounded conductor not a neutral?
3. How does a conductor become a neutral conductor?


The NEC has a couple of new definitions in the '08. Also, the IEEE has definitions. Not that these have changed what a neutral point or neutral conductor is, just that attempts have been made at defining what they are.

Maybe someone can post a couple of the illustrations of the different systems and the relation the "grounded/neutral" has to those systems...

 

[peter d]

I just call it like the unqualified do and call it "positive" and "negative."

 

[iwire]

You have to open your eyes to see.

Very helpful. :roll:

 

[tallguy]

This thread has headed where I thought it would. There is more to a "neutral/neutral conductor" than just carrying current...

1. When is a grounded conductor a neutral?
2. When is a grounded conductor not a neutral?
3. How does a conductor become a neutral conductor?


The NEC has a couple of new definitions in the '08. Also, the IEEE has definitions. Not that these have changed what a neutral point or neutral conductor is, just that attempts have been made at defining what they are.

Maybe someone can post a couple of the illustrations of the different systems and the relation the "grounded/neutral" has to those systems...

Pierre.... haven't you ever used Wikipedia? It's perfect for these sorts of tough questions: Neutral wire :roll:

 

[Smart $]

If the neutral is not a voltage source how are you going to get a 120 volts?

Open a circuit on the neutral side of the load. Which side of the break is energized? ...which is neutral? Will both sides "bite" you or just one?

 

[ronaldrc]

How many agree with this?

The neutral is just a lower voltage tap point on the secondary of the transformer which happens to be at ground potential. And is the source of getting 120 volts

 

[tallguy]

Pierre.... haven't you ever used Wikipedia? It's perfect for these sorts of tough questions: Neutral wire :roll:

Seriously though, a nice thread on the topic is here:
http://forums.mikeholt.com/archive/index.php/t-78067.html

Some guy named Pierre even chimed in.

 

[tallguy]

Open a circuit on the neutral side of the load. Which side of the break is energized? ...which is neutral? Will both sides "bite" you or just one?

Try that with an ungrounded conductor... will both sides bite you, or just one?

I'm with Bob... missing the point.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Pierre.... haven't you ever used Wikipedia? It's perfect for these sorts of tough questions: Neutral wire :roll:

I will not garruantee it, but I think I have looked at most if not all of the internet sources...lots of them (some of them are pretty bad), and I have researched a number of the industry sources as well.

 

[Smart $]

This thread has headed where I thought it would...

Another question is:

When is a neutral conductor not a grounded conductor?​

 

[480sparky]

Only problem I have with Wikepedia is anyone and their uncle can register, log in, and change the articles.

 

[mivey]

Strictly speaking, a neutral conductor is tied to a neutral point. That is why the center-tap of a delta is the neutral for the single-phase portion, not for the 3-phase.

If a transformer has a 120 volt secondary and supplies a 2-wire service, there really is not a neutral point, although we tend to call the grounded conductor the neutral out of habit.

 

[Smart $]

Try that with an ungrounded conductor... will both sides bite you, or just one?

Answer, assuming you mean the circuit is connected ot two ungrounded conductors: both can "bite" under typical conditions, where grounded items are present and the system is grounded.

...but neither is a neutral conductor so what is the point?

Just answer my question, without creating more questions!

 

[ronaldrc]

Sorry Pierre

This thread has proven my point we need to learn simple basic circuits before trying to figure out how the balanced load of a neutral works.

I'm semi retard and still learning and I for one will never know as much as I would like to. Keep the good work up Pierre someone needs to teach us.

 

[mivey]

I think most here have learned it, we just like to argue over semantics.:grin:

 

[ronaldrc]

I think most here have learned it, we just like to argue over semantics.:grin:

Mivey


I agree.

I understand I had a hard time figuring out how a neutral balanced out 30 some years ago.

But it take years of experience to understand what you and Bob where talking about. As simple as voltage drop is in that thread I mentioned.

Years ago when I helped an Electrician change out a service I happen to get a screw driver bridged across the neutral and equipment grounding bar in a sub panel and it sparked like a welder.

The Electrician had no idea it was just the equipment ground conducting the voltage drop across the neutral conductor. I had know idea at the time but I did figure it out a while later after thinking about it.You have to want to know to really learn it.

 

[frizbeedog]

I call it a grounded conductor. After reading through all this I came to realize that it may be understandable for some who have been in the trade for a time but the concepts and the terms make it difficult to explain to our students. And I think that this is your concern.

So I went looking....and found this.

When a 'neutral' isn't a neutral