Neutral Bar

[jim dungar]

I think I have a picture of it the background of this picture. If this is it, do I need to scrape the paint, or do the screws just tap the holes themselves?

The screws packaged with the ground bar should be self tapping.

 

[4x4dually]

Me too. The kicker here it’s a relative of my wife’s, so it’s not like I’m getting rich on this one.

I feel your pain. My wife's family has a few houses. All FPE panels and all with that flaky cloth NM crap.

 

[augie47]

jim dungar would know but most SquareD panels I have seen have a diagram somewhere (often on the door) that will show where the MBJ should be so you can confirm it's presence.
(I have been know to install a jumper from my neutral to my ground bars when I couldn't install a MBJ screw)
Post #17 and #30 seem to be the most relevant.
Bite the bullet,take all that mess off the existing neutral, add the PK ground bars and neatly terminate,

 

[Jimmy7]

jim dungar would know but most SquareD panels I have seen have a diagram somewhere (often on the door) that will show where the MBJ should be so you can confirm it's presence.
(I have been know to install a jumper from my neutral to my ground bars when I couldn't install a MBJ screw)
Post #17 and #30 seem to be the most relevant.
Bite the bullet,take all that mess off the existing neutral, add the PK ground bars and neatly terminate,

How do I size the jumper? Would be something like a #4?

 

[augie47]

How do I size the jumper? Would be something like a #4?

250.102 #4 is correct

 

[hbiss]

Love the water line in front of the panel, or is that just an optical illusion?

-Hal

 

[Jimmy7]

Love the water line in front of the panel, or is that just an optical illusion?

-Hal

It is not an optical illusion

 

[Eddie702]

SqD or any manufacturer is not going to tell you it's ok to modify an old pane with no parts available. Why should they? They don't want to take on any liability even though there is none.

I look at it this way. You add a ground bar. Screw it on or bolt it on whatever. You making it safer than it is now

 

[jim dungar]

SqD or any manufacturer is not going to tell you it's ok to modify an old pane with no parts available.

Drilling a conduit entry hole instead of using a factory knockout is as much a modification as adding a ground bar kit. The manufacturer doesn't really have a say in it and UL only applies to the factory.
Everything you do in the field requires approval only from the AHJ.

 

[Jimmy7]

250.102 #4 is correct

I’m planning on mounting a ground bar somewhere in the panel along with a #4 jumper from the neutral bar to the new ground bar. I’ll just be moving ground wires, but if I install a jumper I could move neutrals to it if I really had to, correct?

 

[hbiss]

No, then you are getting into carrying current. The jumper would have to be the same size as the service neutral. But just for grounds, a jumper isn't even necessary as long as the ground bar is installed correctly to the sheet metal.

-Hal

 

[Little Bill]

No, then you are getting into carrying current. The jumper would have to be the same size as the service neutral. But just for grounds, a jumper isn't even necessary as long as the ground bar is installed correctly to the sheet metal.

-Hal

The jumper would be necessary if there is no MBJ. OP hasn't confirmed that yet.

 

[hbiss]

The jumper would be necessary if there is no MBJ. OP hasn't confirmed that yet.

That's just conjecture that somebody threw into the post and gets brought up every so often. Looks to me like it is there and the OP needs to put his mind at ease before coming up with more ideas. Simple enough to fix if the screw isn't installed instead of thinking about jumpers.

-Hal