Neutral dropped from Utiliy

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Sparkie_2

Member
Hi Everybody, I'm new to the forum and I looked up this website to see if anybody out there has had experiances with a dropped neutral from the utility
company. Assuming that some electronics were damaged in the structure being fed from this service. What has your experiances been with making damage claims to the utility company?

Has anybody had the utility company refuse a claim saying that the customer's grounding system was inadequate?

It dosen't seem to me that this is a viable reason since the grounding system at the customer's service is not ment to be a secondary neutral.

I would appreciate any comments anybody has.

Mahalo,
Sparkie :-?
 
I don't see how the podco can argue a claim if their neutral fails and destroys electronic equipment. I had one case and the were very willing to take care of damages.
 
We are electricians, not lawyers; so don't take anything said here as good legal advice. Hopefully the POCO will pay for damages without much question. If they decide to fight it, you are probably screwed. They have much better lawyers on retainer than you could ever afford. In my opinion the best thing to do would be to submit the claim to your home-owner's insurance carrier, then let the insurance company's lawyers fight the POCO lawyers. With as many electricians and members of the code making panels that are struggling to understand the proper role of grounding, I can't imagine ever getting a logical decision out of a jury.
 
Thanks for the reply gentlemen. I was just wondering how most
Utility Companys handle damage claims. It seems like there is a gap
between the NEC and the NESC in regards to service grounding.
 
I worked for utility companies for 20 years, and we paid for many loose neutrals. We paid for quail eggs that rotted when the power went off, we paid for some of the most unbelievable things you can imagine. It's usually cheaper to pay than fight, especially if the utility is wrong.

As far as a gap between NEC and NESC, I wouldn't describe it as a gap, but as two different approaches to two different ends. The NEC grounding at services has nothing to do with fault clearing at services, we rely on the utility neutral to do that. Years ago, when municipal water systems were metal pipe, the NEC ground at the service did much more for fault clearing, but the advent of plastic pipes had eliminated that benefit.

Jim T
 
Thanks for the reply Jim. I currently work at the local utility company here
on Maui as a planner. I worked as a electrician for 12 years prior to working at the utilty co. I have on going discusions with a friend at work about our neutral and the customers grounding system. My belief is that we (the utility co) should pay for damages if we fail to maintain our equipment and a neutral
drops to the customer. My friend believes that if their grounding system is inadequate that we should not pay. Customers grounding system is not ment to be a backup neutral to the utility. After viewing some other threads on this web site it seems to be a HOT topic.:smile:
 
Sparkie_2 said:
My friend believes that if their grounding system is inadequate that we should not pay.
Click to expand...
I'd be curious to see what your friend would define as "adequate". :)

By the NEC, an installation could have a pair of ground rods at 3000 ohms and be compliant. :D
 
Sparkie_2 said:
Customers grounding system is not ment to be a backup neutral to the utility.
Click to expand...

That is an accurate statement and sums it up.

(A) Grounded Systems
(1) Electrical System Grounding Electrical systems that are grounded shall be connected to earth in a manner that will limit the voltage imposed by lightning, line surges, or unintentional contact with higher-voltage lines and that will stabilize the voltage to earth during normal operation.
Click to expand...

There is nothing in that wording that says the NEC required grounding will complete the service back to the source. (As an aside, normal operation is not when a POCO neutral is lost, this would be abnormal;))

(5) Effective Ground-Fault Current Path Electrical equipment and wiring and other electrically conductive material likely to become energized shall be installed in a manner that creates a permanent, low-impedance circuit facilitating the operation of the overcurrent device or ground detector for high-impedance grounded systems. It shall be capable of safely carrying the maximum ground-fault current likely to be imposed on it from any point on the wiring system where a ground fault may occur to the electrical supply source. The earth shall not be considered as an effective ground-fault current path.
Click to expand...

Now, given the fact that on the line side of service equipment the service neutral plays two roles, one of which is a fault clearing path, and the NEC says we can't consider earth as an effective path for this, we certainly can't expect it to complete the service.

In other words we are not allowed to use an SWER type of system.:)


Roger
 
Last edited:
Sparkie 2, welcome to the forum. SWER is for Single Wire Earth Return, go Here for some information.

Roger
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top