Neutral/Ground Bar

[bphgravity]

If the interconnect of two neutral bars can be removed from a panelboard, can I use one for the EGC and the other for the grounded condcutors as long as I bond the one for the EGC's to the enclosure, or do I need to install a terminal bar for the grounding conductors to be in compliance with 408.20?

 

[fc]

Re: Neutral/Ground Bar

110.3 might stop you from using it.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: Neutral/Ground Bar

I have done many times but local AHJ could push this issue and make you use a ground bar

 

[iwire]

Re: Neutral/Ground Bar

Originally posted by bphgravity:
If the interconnect of two neutral bars can be removed from a panelboard, can I use one for the EGC and the other for the grounded condcutors

 

[ryan_618]

Re: Neutral/Ground Bar

They make a plastic bar that must be used to provide the structural support that is lost when you remove the bar that ties them together (on certain panels, that is). Once this is done, I see absolutley no problem. I don't see it every day, but I do see it rather often.

 

[poolboy]

Re: Neutral/Ground Bar

Here on the left coast we use the 2001 CEC, although slightly different from the NEC a bit more stringent, this is good, electricity loves water, we are 80% fluid, so Grounding is very important in providing something better than a human or animal to latch on to. In a main panel, residential, usually Edison provides you with 2 lines and a (messenger),neutral, it's up to you to make your best ground and bond at the panel, weather it be concrete encased or a stainless steel rod, and picking up all metal piping continuously is important. Now with a sub-panel, even though your EGC and GEC land on the same bar at the main, you do want to isolate them at the sub-panel. Be sure that everything down stream or devices, are in fact grounded with a separate EGC AND that there is NO continuity between ANY EGC and GEC on the load side. We refer to this as a neutral fault test.Good luck

Monk
Huntington Beach, Ca.

[ June 13, 2004, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: poolboy ]

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Neutral/Ground Bar

Originally posted by poolboy:
Here on the left coast we use the 2001 CEC, although slightly different from the NEC a bit more stringent, this is good, electricity loves water, we are 80% fluid, so Grounding is very important in providing something better than a human or animal to latch on to. In a main panel, residential, usually Edison provides you with 2 lines and a (messenger),neutral, it's up to you to make your best ground and bond at the panel, weather it be concrete encased or a stainless steel rod, and picking up all metal piping continuously is important. Now with a sub-panel, even though your EGC and GEC land on the same bar at the main, you do want to isolate them at the sub-panel. Be sure that everything down stream or devices, are in fact grounded with a separate EGC AND that there is NO continuity between ANY EGC and GEC on the load side. We refer to this as a neutral fault test.Good luck

Monk
Huntington Beach, Ca.

Huh? What in the world are you talking about? I don't think you are following the topic.

 

[dillon3c]

Re: Neutral/Ground Bar

110.3(b)& 408.20 Last paragraft,first sentence.

 

[roger]

Re: Neutral/Ground Bar

Dillon3c, the last paragraph of 408.20 only has one sentence.

As Ryan and Bob mention, there are instructions included with load centers to accommodate this installation.

Roger

[ June 17, 2004, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: roger ]

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: Neutral/Ground Bar

Someones been dipping into the chlorine again!

 

[roger]

Re: Neutral/Ground Bar

Scott, how did 680 get into this?

Roger

 

[dillon3c]

Re: Neutral/Ground Bar

I'm assuming he's refering of a split-bus neutral bar in a loadcenter with a tie- bar between .True the last paragraft is one sentence.And in this sentence it states (Shall not be connected to a terminal bar(not used for),but"PROVIDED for" grounded conductors".I may be wrong, been wrong before. but reading it right out of the book.Wasn't both sides of the split bus neutral bar, provided for said GROUNDED neutral conductor.I mean I suppose you could remove the tie bar,but being from N.C. also, we have a Electrical Inspector in our area that the words "intended or altered or indenified for the purpose", is a issue.

 

[eprice]

Re: Neutral/Ground Bar

I believe that if the panel was made so that the tie bar could be removed, and if the labeling allows the use of half of the bus for grounding conductors, then the manufacturer has "provided" one side for grounding conductors when used properly. If it is used in accordance with the labeling then the intent of 110.3 is met IMO. The problem I see sometimes when this is done, is that they end up putting more than one grounded conductor in some of the holes on the half used for gounded conductors.

[ June 18, 2004, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: eprice ]

 

[fc]

Re: Neutral/Ground Bar

I think it should be left alone and just install a ground bar. The way our luck runs we would run short on neutral terminals and would have to put it back.

 

[explorer]

Re: Neutral/Ground Bar

Well, I'm on the left coast in Oregon and we use the NEC. This guy from California talking about using the CEC must be smoking some serious crack or something.....ha ha.