Neutral in switch box

[mstrlucky74]

So if you have a wall occupancy sensor according to the code I don't think you need a neutral in the switch box and that's considered automatic lighting control. Agree?

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[Buck Parrish]

Regardless of the type of switch. The neutral is required if you do not have future access to the switch box from above or below the panel.

I'll look for the NEC reference, hang on a second...

 

[Buck Parrish]

Sorry , I had to drive over to the office.

You're right. If it's a ceiling mounted permanent sensor. Neutral conductor not required. It's 404.2

 

[WarrMann]

So if you have a wall occupancy sensor

Unless you're using conduit, or have access, it seems to me you will need a neutral.

The only condition you might meet to not bring one in with an occupancy sensor is 404.2(c)(4). Where lighting in an area is controlled by an automatic means.

But i would think a regular wall occupancy sensor is not what the code means by automatic. As most of them have a manual override button. There's also the possibility that OC sensors in the future might required the neutral.

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[ActionDave]

Unless you're using conduit, or have access, it seems to me you will need a neutral.

As long as you have access from above or below so that you can fish a wire then you don't have to have a neutral.

The only condition you might meet to not bring one in with an occupancy sensor is 404.2(c)(4). Where lighting in an area is controlled by an automatic means.

But i would think a regular wall occupancy sensor is not what the code means by automatic. As most of them have a manual override button. There's also the possibility that OC sensors in the future might required the neutral.

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If an occupancy sensor on the wall is not automatic then what is? It's certainly not manual.

 

[WarrMann]

If an occupancy sensor on the wall is not automatic then what is? It's certainly not manual.

You've convinced me, I'll never look at an occupancy sensor the same. Even if it has a button that allows me to manually turn the light on or off.

Next house i do is getting all switch legs down from the ceiling. When the inspector asks, i'm just going to tell him the customer spec'd occupancy sensor.

Either way, the neutral usually comes down to whether or not it's accessible, not so much the device you're planning on putting in. There's lots of in wall automatic lighting controls that do require a neutral. And lots that don't. The code is there to make sure we have access to it for the one's that do need a neutral.




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[LarryFine]

Either way, the neutral usually comes down to whether or not it's accessible, not so much the device you're planning on putting in. There's lots of in wall automatic lighting controls that do require a neutral. And lots that don't. The code is there to make sure we have access to it for the one's that do need a neutral.

Also, many of one kind get replaced by one of the other kind. The perfectionist in me would rather install the neutral now in cable-type installs.

Kinda-sorta why motor circuits are sized by code rather than by the label on installed motor: replacements may not have the exact same specs.

 

[Adamjamma]

You've convinced me, I'll never look at an occupancy sensor the same. Even if it has a button that allows me to manually turn the light on or off.

Next house i do is getting all switch legs down from the ceiling. When the inspector asks, i'm just going to tell him the customer spec'd occupancy sensor.

Either way, the neutral usually comes down to whether or not it's accessible, not so much the device you're planning on putting in. There's lots of in wall automatic lighting controls that do require a neutral. And lots that don't. The code is there to make sure we have access to it for the one's that do need a neutral.




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Gee, here I am, starting to do it the opposite way.. I was doing all my lights from the outlet to the switches, British Standard Style..lol.. British use a Cieling Rose that makes the job easier..lol..
But, with the neutrals call and the fact so many wanted three way and four way switching, plus I use conduit as well... I got into feed at one end of switches, run from switch to switch, then last switch feeds the rooms lights... so I always have a hot and a neutral and a ground in a switch location.. and the travelers if it is a three or four way... plus always using the deeper boxes and the mud rings,.lol.