Neutral wires in panel

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
What code cycle was in effect when the house was built?

Roger
If the HI was trying to say that it was a listing issue he needs to say that and back it up.

Roger

Roger when dealing with a home inspection report it's not that important how right or wrong the home inspector is.

What's really important is that when the seller goes to closing that there are no hold ups in the sale of the house.

For each item on the home inspection report you need to state how the item was addressed in a way that there can be no questions about it.

For any problem concerning neutrals and grounds I have never seen a panel so bad that it can't be straightened out in less than an hours.

It's worth it to the home seller to have the problem solved. Even if there is another inspection before the home is sold (by a different inspector) that particular issue will not get written up again.

If you try to ague the legality of having more than one neutral under a terminal you will probably spend more than an hour just trying to convince them you are right.

It's better to use your time productively and solve the problem in a way that can't be questioned.

Edit: When straightening out those neutrals you will probably find a couple of loose one's that needed to be tightened anyway. It's not really a waste of time.
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Electrician
Roger when dealing with a home inspection report it's not that important how right or wrong the home inspector is.

What's really important is that when the seller goes to closing that there are no hold ups in the sale of the house.

For each item on the home inspection report you need to state how the item was addressed in a way that there can be no questions about it.

For any problem concerning neutrals and grounds I have never seen a panel so bad that it can't be straightened out in less than an hours.

It's worth it to the home seller to have the problem solved. Even if there is another inspection before the home is sold (by a different inspector) that particular issue will not get written up again.

If you try to ague the legality of having more than one neutral under a terminal you will probably spend more than an hour just trying to convince them you are right.

It's better to use your time productively and solve the problem in a way that can't be questioned.

Edit: When straightening out those neutrals you will probably find a couple of loose one's that needed to be tightened anyway. It's not really a waste of time.
When I have addressed HI non issues I will point out that at the time the house was built xwz was not a violation, if the buyer, seller, or realtor want's it changed then I would be happy to take the money.

As you point out, straightening out a few wires or adding a neutral bar is not a big issue but, HI reports can be a lot more involved than that and with items that are not problems, I will always make sure the person contacting me knows that.

I have bought and sold houses so I am aware of how it works on both sides, I made it clear when selling it is "as is".

Roger
 
I have seen inspectors question 2 grounds under a screw and 2 hots on a breaker (both allowed by the manufacturer of the panel). A pigtail and a wire nut is easier than arguing.

Sent from my RCT6213W22 using Tapatalk
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I have seen inspectors question 2 grounds under a screw and 2 hots on a breaker (both allowed by the manufacturer of the panel). A pigtail and a wire nut is easier than arguing.

Sent from my RCT6213W22 using Tapatalk

Sure it is but it is not the best action, imo. BTW, it is not just a case of pigtailing with the neutrals. If you do that for the neutrals then you have to make sure the breakers are on opposite phases and you also need a handle tie.
 
Sure it is but it is not the best action, imo. BTW, it is not just a case of pigtailing with the neutrals. If you do that for the neutrals then you have to make sure the breakers are on opposite phases and you also need a handle tie.
I did not suggest to do it with neutrals. Pigtail a few grounds together and you free up screws for the neutrals.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
I did not suggest to do it with neutrals. Pigtail a few grounds together and you free up screws for the neutrals.

I know that I was just getting back to the original thread. While it is fine to do with the equipment grounding conductor some may think it is okay with the neutral. Often times the use of the word ground confuses people as the neutral is a grounded conductor and sometimes a equipment grounding conductor.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
When I have addressed HI non issues I will point out that at the time the house was built xwz was not a violation.
2 hots on a breaker (both allowed by the manufacturer of the panel). A pigtail and a wire nut is easier than arguing.
The problem here is that a home inspector does not have to site a code violation since a home inspection is not a code inspection.

Home inspectors write up anything that they may consider a matter of concern for the future homeowner.

Take the example given by rjniles, two conductors under one breaker. You could try to argue that it's allowed by the manufacturer or you could just pigtail a single conductor and and you know that is the end of it.

I have no interest at all in trying to train home inspectors on code (most of the time I will not even meet the home inspector). I charge a minimum of two hours to deal with the small BS items listed on a home inspection report and most of the time that's enough time if I don't waste time trying to argue.

Over the last 20 years I have dealt with a few hundred home inspection reports and I have learned the fastest and easiest way to deal with them.
 

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Electrician
You could try to argue that it's allowed by the manufacturer or you could just pigtail a single conductor and and you know that is the end of it.
This is what I don't understand, I've never argued about it, they send me the HI's report, I reply to each line item on a letterhead, I explain which ones are real issues an which ones are not, sometimes with substantiation sometimes without, that's end of story.

I have no interest at all in trying to train home inspectors on code (most of the time I will not even meet the home inspector).
Same here on both counts.

I charge a minimum of two hours to deal with the small BS items listed on a home inspection report and most of the time that's enough time if I don't waste time trying to argue.
When they accept my proposal or rates it's as I said, I'm happy to take the money but they will know what they are paying for real or imagined without arguing.

Over the last 20 years I have dealt with a few hundred home inspection reports and I have learned the fastest and easiest way to deal with them.
And that's fine, I will deal with them my way.

BTW, I want to make it clear that I do not have a problem with HI's but if they make a false observation on a report I will point it out.

Roger
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
The problem here is that a home inspector does not have to site a code violation since a home inspection is not a code inspection. I agree. Some usefulness from electrical perspective is they may find some things that are just deterioration of things rather than possible code violations. Open panel and find melted conductor insulation on incoming line - not really a code to cite, just mention that something is likely failing there and it needs some attention.


Home inspectors write up anything that they may consider a matter of concern for the future homeowner.

Take the example given by rjniles, two conductors under one breaker. You could try to argue that it's allowed by the manufacturer or you could just pigtail a single conductor and and you know that is the end of it.

I have no interest at all in trying to train home inspectors on code (most of the time I will not even meet the home inspector). I charge a minimum of two hours to deal with the small BS items listed on a home inspection report and most of the time that's enough time if I don't waste time trying to argue.

Over the last 20 years I have dealt with a few hundred home inspection reports and I have learned the fastest and easiest way to deal with them.
Thing I run into is there isn't any "home inspectors" out here where I live. Realtors sometimes call me asking for an electrical inspection on a home they are involved with. My guess most the time is potential buyer has concerns, and they want to call in an expert, this puts more liability on me and I hate doing it, and usually tell them I don't have the time to do it even if things are pretty slow. They probably only want some things to use for price negotiating and may not even intend to fix much if anything that I do comment about. But at same time I don't want to not be thorough and miss even a small thing that might come back to haunt me. So they think I am going to come over and within short time tell them everything is OK or point out a few obvious things that they already figured out need attention and charge maybe $100 and move on.

I don't want to do that. A HI can get away with that easier, he is an expert at nothing but I am an expert at electrical - I miss something and someone is injured or killed because of something that was existing when I was there I will be blamed if I didn't mention it. I need at least a couple hours to inspect and at least another hour or two to write up my findings, part of which will also state that since a lot of wiring is concealed I can not accurately tell what condition it is in without destructive measures being taken to investigate.

Buying a used house is like buying a used car - you can't expect everything to be in perfect condition and certainly can't expect everything to comply with standards that are being met in a new house. There are practices that maybe were common at different times even though they were not complaint with codes at the time. It happens. All you can do with those is mention this fact and it is up to those reading the report to decide how they want to proceed with that information.
 

growler

Senior Member
Location
Atlanta,GA
So they think I am going to come over and within short time tell them everything is OK or point out a few obvious things that they already figured out need attention and charge maybe $100 and move on.
I wouldn't even think of doing a home electrical inspection for a $100. Doing a proper home electrical inspection often requires a crawl through an attic and a crawl space. Those are two things I'm not real crazy about. But that's were you find a lot of problems.

But I don't solicit work inspecting homes because it would be considered a conflict of interest if I were to also do the repairs and I would rather repair items listed by others.
 
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