jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Mike Holt did a good job of defining it in one of his videos. Since I can't remember it exactly, I will not try to state it.
Neutrals on ground bar
- Thread starter mbrooke
- Start date
- Status
Mike Holt did a good job of defining it in one of his videos. Since I can't remember it exactly, I will not try to state it.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
That would still be Mike's interpretation and not anything NFPA necessarily endorses, though Mike has some pretty good credibility among electrical professionals with his content.
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
The bold says it all: the MBJ connects the egc bus to the grounded bus. If you want to be picky, landing neutrals and grounds together, and in fact the green screw method employed by many load centers, is not compliant! (Smart $ pointed this one out)
I think the definition could use a little tweaking to mesh with modern equipment and practices
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Did Smart$ point that out in this thead or another one?
I agree the screw maybe doesn't always meet NEC technicalities - but the loadcenter and the screw they supply with it are tested and listed together. There are other things out there that are not NEC compliant but are allowed if listed for a the purpose in question.
I mentioned the 250 .24 and .30 sections because it is sort of implied that the bonding jumper mentioned there is the divider between the grounded conductor and equipment grounding conductor. But there are other areas of code where we are still permitted to bond things (EGC's or GEC's) to the grounded conductor at or before the service disconnect enclosure, so I don't believe it is the intent of NEC to prohibit EGC's on the grounded conductor bus in service equipment enclosures.
mjf
Senior Member
Most of the load centers I've used come with 1 termination bar on each side of the cabinet, connected by a bonding strap. they are isolated from the cabinet until (if main panel) I install the provided green bonding screw. Since they have a factory bonding strap, it doesn't matter which bar I land grounds or grounded conductors on.
If to be used as a sub-panel, I don't install the green bonding screw and I do install a grounding bar directly to the cabinet. All grounds and neutrals separate.
I believe a wire of sufficient size is acceptable as a jumper if desired if a factory bonding bar is not installed.
If to be used as a sub-panel, I don't install the green bonding screw and I do install a grounding bar directly to the cabinet. All grounds and neutrals separate.
I believe a wire of sufficient size is acceptable as a jumper if desired if a factory bonding bar is not installed.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
DBoone
Senior Member
- Location
- Mississippi
- Occupation
- General Contractor
Carl Johnson
Member
- Location
- Orlando, Florida USA
Please check out 408.40
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
The collective conscience of humanity would improve if every trace of the music he recorded was removed from the earth.
I already new you didn't like him. I was asking what the cause of that dislike is. But since this isn't the place to discuss that sort of thing I apologize for the clutter and withdraw the question.
--
Tom Horne
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
I don't dislike him. I dislike his music .
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I understand that, just find it hard to believe there are only two people who's music you dislike
I am not a big fan of either one of those performers myself, but definitely can find some I dislike even more:happyyes:
- Occupation
- Licensed Electrician
If I thought about really hard I might find a close second but John Denver is at the top. Sappy sentimentality makes me sick.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
They must not have played anything else on the radios in CO back in the 70's early 80's except John Denver. There was a lot of sappy sentimentality, I think, just can't seem to think of any off top of my head - probably because I wasn't into it. Go watch those late night infomercials that try to sell some of the music from that time and you will be reminded of some of them.
IIRC John Denver wasn't his real name, just one he took on. Had he ended up in Detroit maybe his name would have been John Detroit? Maybe Hell Michigan and he could have been John Hell, how about Intercourse PA?
Carultch
Senior Member
- Location
- Massachusetts
What about "vice versa"?
Neutral conductors cannot depend on a path through a metal enclosure to carry the current.
But what about groundING conductors landing on the neutral busbar, in the main panelboard where the neutral bonding jumper is installed?
electrofelon
Senior Member
- Location
- Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
That is my point - that the wording and definitions really state that the EGC's land together and connect to the grounded bus with a MBJ. The common practices and modern equipment often dont do it quite that way....
mbrooke
Batteries Included
- Location
- United States
- Occupation
- Technician
Which makes me wonder. I see meter sockets where the neutral bar is entirely laying across the metal can, how does code allow this?
- Location
- Placerville, CA, USA
- Occupation
- Retired PV System Designer
In the meter socket is probably upstream of the service disconnect and the agreed service point. NEC would not apply.in that case.
In some situations (bond in main panel) it would matter whether there is a metallic path between meter and main.
- Location
- Massachusetts
As GD mentioned most times it is on the line side of the service disconnect and it is the only way to bond the meter enclosure. However the NEC allows it on the load side as well as long as it is adjacent to the service disconnect.
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