New 200 amp panel

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wwhitney said:
Yes, I agree with all of the above.


I don't believe I have made that claim. All I ever intended to say was that if a load center's trim has no provision for attaching a door, its enclosure is not a cabinet, and so Article 312 does not apply. I don't think it matters if there is another trim available for the enclosure that would accept a door; if the installed trim has no provision for accepting a door, it's not a cabinet.

Edit: I see that up until post #52, we both were using the phrase "panelboard without a door" which was somewhat ambiguous. In post #52, I clarified that per the definition, what matters is the provision for having a door, not whether the door is actually there.

Cheers, Wayne
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Okay, so are you implying that a panelboard with a no-door trim installed does not have to have NM cables individually secured to the enclosure because that loadcenter isn't a cabinet? That seems beyond unlikely as an NEC intent, and the factor of a door or no door has absolutely no bearing on the use of nonmetallic cable. There's no logic supporting this whatsoever, and it's an enormous stretch of interpretation.
 
Craigv said:
Okay, so are you implying that a panelboard with a no-door trim installed does not have to have NM cables individually secured to the enclosure because that loadcenter isn't a cabinet?
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I'm saying that such a loadcenter enclosure isn't a cabinet, so Article 312 doesn't apply. We'd have to look to another article, such as Article 314, for the requirements on securing the cables to the enclosure.

BTW, this is a bit surprising to me, as well, but I'm just reading the definitions and applying them as written.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
I'm saying that such a loadcenter enclosure isn't a cabinet, so Article 312 doesn't apply. We'd have to look to another article, such as Article 314, for the requirements on securing the cables to the enclosure.

BTW, this is a bit surprising to me, as well, but I'm just reading the definitions and applying them as written.

Cheers, Wayne
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This is why I don't agree with a narrow interpretation of "cabinet" in 312.5(C)...I can't find another article covering an enclosure that can accept door trim but doesn't have such trim installed (whether the door is installed on such trim or not), and article 314 doesn't cover this whatsoever. If you or anyone can find an article that covers this, I'd like to see it. The requirement to individually secure nonmetallic cable to an *enclosure* in all but the very strict exception is covered well in 312.5(C), in my opinion.
 
wwhitney said:
I'm a little unclear on that. Aren't circuit breakers devices, so wouldn't a panelboard be a device box, meaning Article 314 would apply?

Cheers, Wayne
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Panelboard is not an enclosure of any type, it is (short definition) the assembly of buses and breakers that gets installed inside a cabinet.

Art 100 definition actually says "designed to be placed in a cabinet or cutout box"
 
kwired said:
Panelboard is not an enclosure of any type
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OK, I should have said panelboard enclosure in my previous post.

kwired said:
Art 100 definition actually says "designed to be placed in a cabinet or cutout box"
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Interesting, so what happens when a panelboard is installed in an enclosure that isn't a cabinet or cutout box because it has no provisions for a door? Sounds like the definition of cabinet should be updated to cover this corner case.

Cheers, Wayne
 
wwhitney said:
OK, I should have said panelboard enclosure in my previous post.


Interesting, so what happens when a panelboard is installed in an enclosure that isn't a cabinet or cutout box because it has no provisions for a door? Sounds like the definition of cabinet should be updated to cover this corner case.

Cheers, Wayne
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A cutout box does not require a door.

"....has swinging doors or covers secured directly to and telescoping with the walls of the enclosure."



[h=2][/h]
 
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