new 2010 regs

[kwired]

From Nebraska State Electrical Act:

81-2106 Plan, lay out, or supervise certain activities; license required; exceptions.
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Except as provided in section 81-2108, 81-2110, or 81-2112, no person shall, for another, plan, lay out, or supervise the installation of wiring, apparatus, or equipment for electrical light, heat, power, and other purposes unless he or she is licensed by the board as a Class B electrical contractor, an electrical contractor, a Class A master electrician, or a Class B master electrician. [/FONT]
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Source
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Laws 1975, LB 525, ? 7; Laws 1978, LB 833, ? 4; R.S.Supp.,1980, ? 81-577; Laws 1993, LB 193, ? 6; Laws 2003, LB 126, ? 5. [/FONT][/FONT]


81-2108 Wiring or installing; license required; exceptions; lending license prohibited.
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](1) Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section or in section 81-2110 or 81-2112, no person shall, for another, wire for or install electrical wiring, apparatus, or equipment unless he or she is licensed by the board as a Class B electrical contractor, an electrical contractor, a Class A master electrician, a Class B master electrician, or a fire alarm installer. [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](2) Except as provided in section 81-2106, 81-2110, or 81-2112, no person shall wire for or install electrical wiring, apparatus, or equipment or supervise an apprentice electrician unless such person is licensed as a Class B journeyman electrician, a journeyman electrician, a residential journeyman electrician, or a fire alarm installer and is employed by a Class B electrical contractor, an electrical contractor, a Class A master electrician, a Class B master electrician, or a fire alarm installer. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]For purposes of this section, the holder of a fire alarm installer license shall only supervise those apprentices engaged in the installation of fire alarm equipment and apparatus operating at fifty volts or less. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](3) No person licensed under the State Electrical Act may lend his or her license to any person or knowingly permit the use of such license by another. [/FONT]
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Source
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Laws 1975, LB 525, ? 9; Laws 1978, LB 833, ? 6; R.S.Supp.,1980, ? 81-579; Laws 1982, LB 605, ? 1; Laws 1993, LB 193, ? 8; Laws 2003, LB 126, ? 7; Laws 2004, LB 914, ? 2. [/FONT][/FONT]


81-2110 Installer; license; rights and privileges.
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Any person holding an installer license may lay out and install electrical wiring, apparatus, and equipment for major electrical home appliances on the load side of the main service in any municipality having a population of less than one hundred thousand inhabitants. [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Source [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Laws 1975, LB 525, ? 11; R.S.1943, (1976), ? 81-581; Laws 1993, LB 193, ? 10. [/FONT][/FONT]

[/FONT][/FONT]
81-2112 Special electrician license; licensee; rights and privileges; qualifications.
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]The board shall by rule or regulation provide for the issuance of special electrician licenses empowering the licensee to engage in a limited class or classes of electrical work, which class or classes shall be specified on the license. Each licensee shall have experience, acceptable to the board, in each such limited class of work for which he is licensed. [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Source [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Laws 1975, LB 525, ? 13; R.S.1943, (1976), ? 81-583. [/FONT][/FONT]

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The only people that can pull a permit are contractors or special license holders for the type of work covered by their special license. Homeowners may file permit and work on their primary residence only. There are no more homeowners working on a new home (some still try) because a couple years ago the State Electrical Division decided that a new home is not a primary residence until it is occupied. There is an owner request for inspection but is is just that, an inspection. If there was an install then the installer needed to meet requirements and pull permit before starting work.

Agricultural wiring is exempt from inspection but not from the other laws (makes a lot of sense doesn't it?) State lawmakers will be the ones that allow this to change and it probably will not in a state where Ag is the largest industry. Problem is farms and facilities are getting larger and wiring is more complicated and is no longer much different than other facilities. I do regular work on a dairy farm that has 800 amp 480 volt service. Big change from old daries that only had 100 amp single phase services.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Ohio.

1) Commercial work requires a state Electrical Contractor License.

2) Anyone can do residential work. No license available for residential work.

3) What local authorities, if certified for residential, can do is require a state license (no additional testing allowed) to perform residential work in thier jurisdiction (registration).

4) Homeowners can perform work on thier own home, the house that they live in. Not in thier own rental properties. See #3.

5) If there is no certified residential building department then see #2.

 

[cowboyjwc]

sorry was really tired last night. so in CA you are a couple of code cycles behind other states. so mechanical contractors pull permits do their own wiring, sign contractors pull permits and do their own wiring, pool contractors are the same as well. how many apprentices are you allowed on the job site per licensed person? It also sounds the same with Prevailing wage jobs as it is here. contractors are held to a higher standard or should I say a more rigid standard. I would say a fair amount (since I could only guess) of prevailing wage jobs here would involve legal action to finalize the contract due to overages and non specific changes, like you meet what the contract said but the architect had envisioned it differently and wants it changed to his vision; who pays for it but it will be done in order to get paid. so things sound similar in the construction trade in CA.

How about other state what you guys got going there?

I can't recall about the ratio, I'm sure that someone else knows, again that's more of a union thing. There's really no such thing here as apprentices and journeymen, I was wiring apartment buildings on my own after only two or three years in the trade.

I believe that the law used to say that the license holder had to be on site, but I know for a fact that that's not the case on most jobs.

 

[e57]

sorry was really tired last night. so in CA you are a couple of code cycles behind other states.

Only one for the time being... For instance the 2008 NEC will become the 2010 CEC in 2011... In the past we skipped the '96, and if I remember right we were on the 93 clear to 2001? When we adopted the '99... Which was not effective until Nov, 1 2002.

so mechanical contractors pull permits do their own wiring, sign contractors pull permits and do their own wiring, pool contractors are the same as well.

The above may do incidental wiring, but often this work is inspected by the type of inspector for each trade and on the permit they pulled. With the exclusion of 'Electrical Sign' - which will be an electrical permit in most places. But often in other than the larger cities there will be 'multi-trade inspectors'. But that is almost a topic for a whole new thread - Apprenticeship and training is now required to work in the electrical trade, and very soon to obtain a contracting license as well (Although experience has always been required.) But you can inspect electrical work - and be a plumber by trade.... :roll:

how many apprentices are you allowed on the job site per licensed person? It also sounds the same with Prevailing wage jobs as it is here. contractors are held to a higher standard or should I say a more rigid standard. I would say a fair amount (since I could only guess) of prevailing wage jobs here would involve legal action to finalize the contract due to overages and non specific changes, like you meet what the contract said but the architect had envisioned it differently and wants it changed to his vision; who pays for it but it will be done in order to get paid. so things sound similar in the construction trade in CA.

How about other state what you guys got going there?

You can have 50,000 apprentices on a job is you like - But they need to be supervised on a one to one basis by a certified JW - if that makes any sense.... However, ONLY ON PW WORK - you must have I think - 5 hours for every 8 JW hour. And this will be enforced by the "Labor Compliance Officer" - an appointed representative on your tax payer dollars to make sure the "right" labor is used on the job... Upon award of a PW contract you are required by law to contact inform 3 apprenticeship programs, and request dispatch of apprentices by one of them. The "Labor Compliance Officer" will then make damned sure all of your 'papers are in order' - if not - remove you from the job and impose fines/penalties, and/or report you to the DIR/DAS who will report you to the CSLB to have your license revoked.... And you get to pay a contractor who has the 'right labor' to complete the job for you - since you are still legally bound to complete the contract....

On other than PW work - it's the wild west at the moment, and enforcement is slim to nil. In fact - much of the labor force is not certified, and their employers have little knowledge or regard for the law due to that.

 

[cowboyjwc]

See, I told you someone would know.:grin:

 

[e57]

I can't recall about the ratio, I'm sure that someone else knows, again that's more of a union thing. There's really no such thing here as apprentices and journeymen, I was wiring apartment buildings on my own after only two or three years in the trade.

I believe that the law used to say that the license holder had to be on site, but I know for a fact that that's not the case on most jobs.

Times they have changed my friend...

If you still have your C-10 - I suggest some light reading of the current laws about who can work for you...

?290.0. General

Scope and Application: Improper electrical connections can result in fire or other damage to property and can cause injury and death. Any individual may apply for certification showing that the individual possesses the skill, knowledge and training to safely and competently make electrical connections of 100 volt-amperes or more in the course of doing work for a contractor licensed as a Class C-10 electrical contractor under the Contractors' State License Board Rules and Regulations. Certification displays an individual's expertise within the category of certification, and allows the individual to lawfully perform whatever part of the work within that category is work for which certification is required.


Note: Authority cited: Section 3099, Labor Code. References: Sections 3099-3099.4, Labor Code.

The consequences:

(h) Commencing July 1, 2009, the following shall constitute
additional grounds for disciplinary proceedings, including suspension
or revocation of the license of a class C-10 electrical contractor
pursuant to Article 7 (commencing with Section 7090) of Chapter 9 of
Division 3 of the Business and Professions Code:
(1) The contractor willfully employs one or more uncertified
persons to perform work as electricians in violation of this section.
(2) The contractor willfully fails to provide the adequate
supervision of uncertified workers required by paragraph (3) of
subdivision (a) of Section 3099.4.
(3) The contractor willfully fails to provide adequate supervision
of apprentices performing work pursuant to subdivision (d).

While enforcement on PW work is extreme -and IMO the intent of the law in the first place - since both laws were written and passed at the same time.... Someone - like a competitor - or begrudged employee could fill one of these rat-u-out forms.
http://www.dir.ca.gov/das/ECU/ElectricianComplaintForm.pdf

Currently the CSLB are doling out 'fines' - since the CSLB is being forced by the DAS to act on these - but will according to my previous correspondence with the CSLB - 'enforcement will be progressive', asked to elaborate - he said first it will be fines, larger fines, then suspension, and yep down the line - no more C-10 for you.... :roll: Who knows at what time line they may move to that - but there it is....

 

[cschmid]

You've misread.

First off, giving advice is not listed as electrical work but using that advice is electrical work.

could you tell me the difference in advice and planning if you advice is used in the wiring scheme? So if the home owner says joe electrician told me that was the correct way to do it that way, what would you call the advice then? just curious because I believe the intent is to eliminate electricians who work full time for a licensed contractor from doing side jobs. I believe you are correct on the cash area.

The only people that can pull a permit are contractors or special license holders for the type of work covered by their special license. Homeowners may file permit and work on their primary residence only. There are no more homeowners working on a new home (some still try) because a couple years ago the State Electrical Division decided that a new home is not a primary residence until it is occupied. There is an owner request for inspection but is is just that, an inspection. If there was an install then the installer needed to meet requirements and pull permit before starting work.

Agricultural wiring is exempt from inspection but not from the other laws (makes a lot of sense doesn't it?) State lawmakers will be the ones that allow this to change and it probably will not in a state where Ag is the largest industry. Problem is farms and facilities are getting larger and wiring is more complicated and is no longer much different than other facilities. I do regular work on a dairy farm that has 800 amp 480 volt service. Big change from old daries that only had 100 amp single phase services.

I like the new home scenario but I bet that reg created a huge fall out when that was implemented? I can see where the Ag issue is of concern. What is the difference between a class A and Class B licenses. in mn it is the population and no new class b have been issued since in the 70's I believe.

Ohio.

1) Commercial work requires a state Electrical Contractor License.

2) Anyone can do residential work. No license available for residential work.

3) What local authorities, if certified for residential, can do is require a state license (no additional testing allowed) to perform residential work in thier jurisdiction (registration).

4) Homeowners can perform work on thier own home, the house that they live in. Not in thier own rental properties. See #3.

5) If there is no certified residential building department then see #2.

can you elaborate on the #3 post, so any joe can do residential, is there an inspection on residential?

On other than PW work - it's the wild west at the moment, and enforcement is slim to nil. In fact - much of the labor force is not certified, and their employers have little knowledge or regard for the law due to that.

So prevailing wage work is it mostly governmental or what types of work qualifies for prevailing wage work.


Now I am enjoying seeing the differences in the states electrical regulation what about you guys.

 

[iwire]

could you tell me the difference in advice and planning if you advice is used in the wiring scheme?

Yes I can give you what I think the common meaning is.

• Advice is just that, some advice.
  
• Planing is the actual designing.

But you are seriously predisposed to twist into something more so do not let me slow you down. :grin:

 

[cschmid]

Yes I can give you what I think the common meaning is.

• Advice is just that, some advice.
  
• Planing is the actual designing.

But you are seriously predisposed to twist into something more so do not let me slow you down. :grin:

Bob what have I done here to twist anything. I am not going after anything just a conversation on how the states are similar or different? I have no predisposed theme here. nothing but education to gain.

I only threw that out there to start conversation nothing more.

 

[jxofaltrds]

"can you elaborate on the #3 post, so any joe can do residential, is there an inspection on residential? "

Any Joe Blow can do 1,2,3 family work IF:

1 There is no 'state certified' residential building department. OR

2 If that 'state certified' department does not require a 'state' license (Electrical Contractor License) for (to do) residential work.

Now even if there is no AHJ you must still meet the RCO (2006 Residential Code of Ohio with 2009 updates). Since this is an electrical forum the 2008 NEC applies(Ohio). 2005 NEC for manufactured homes (Ohio) (unless they have changed this since last year).

As to advice. Does your state have something like this:

"(B) The ?practice of electrical inspection? includes any ascertainment of compliance with the Ohio building code, or the electrical code of a political subdivision of this state by a person, who, for compensation, inspects the construction and installation of electrical conductors, fittings, devices, and fixtures for light, heat or power services equipment, or the installation, alteration, replacement, maintenance, or repair of any electrical wiring and equipment that is subject to any of the aforementioned codes."
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3783

 

[kwired]

I like the new home scenario but I bet that reg created a huge fall out when that was implemented? I can see where the Ag issue is of concern. What is the difference between a class A and Class B licenses. in mn it is the population and no new class b have been issued since in the 70's I believe.

Homeowners used to be able to file a permit and do the work on their primary residence. This is still the law and the words have not changed at all. The interpretation has changed. A new home is not anyones primary residence until it is occupied. This was done roughly two years ago because the inspectors spent too much time "training" homeowners how to wire their home because they have no clue what needs to be done to pass inspections. Correction fees/reinspection fees got stiffer about 8-10 years ago but still did not turn the amateur away from this. There were also many times where the owner was not actually doing the work but had to be there for the inspector and try to convince him they did the work but at the same time had difficulty answering questions from the inspector because they did not do the work. Many times a true electrician was eventually hired to fix and finish the job once the inspector held up the project enough to make owner give in. (can be good money but owners usually had enough they are no fun to work for)

Class B (contractor or journeyman) licenses are grandfathered licenses for people who once had them when they issued them. The class B limited its holder to residential work only up to 4 family (I think) and 400 amps maximum. Now the only new licenses are Contrator and Journeyman, and they recently brought back a version of the class B journeyman and are calling it residential journeymen. I think mostly same requirements as the old class B. This person could still work under a regular journeyman or contractor on other than residential work, just as an apprentice can.

As far as the ag issue - agrucultural projects are not required to file permit or be inspected. However some power companies are refusing to provide power without an inspection for services operating over 150 volts to ground nominal. This at least helps keep these installations safer at initial construction, but watch out for what may be added later when no inspection is required.

 

[cschmid]

"can you elaborate on the #3 post, so any joe can do residential, is there an inspection on residential? "

Any Joe Blow can do 1,2,3 family work IF:

1 There is no 'state certified' residential building department. OR

2 If that 'state certified' department does not require a 'state' license (Electrical Contractor License) for (to do) residential work.

Now even if there is no AHJ you must still meet the RCO (2006 Residential Code of Ohio with 2009 updates). Since this is an electrical forum the 2008 NEC applies(Ohio). 2005 NEC for manufactured homes (Ohio) (unless they have changed this since last year).

As to advice. Does your state have something like this:

"(B) The ?practice of electrical inspection? includes any ascertainment of compliance with the Ohio building code, or the electrical code of a political subdivision of this state by a person, who, for compensation, inspects the construction and installation of electrical conductors, fittings, devices, and fixtures for light, heat or power services equipment, or the installation, alteration, replacement, maintenance, or repair of any electrical wiring and equipment that is subject to any of the aforementioned codes."
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/3783

So if there is no AHJ how do they enforce? no but it sounds very through on the receiving of compensation for inspection.

 

[cschmid]

Homeowners used to be able to file a permit and do the work on their primary residence. This is still the law and the words have not changed at all. The interpretation has changed. A new home is not anyones primary residence until it is occupied. This was done roughly two years ago because the inspectors spent too much time "training" homeowners how to wire their home because they have no clue what needs to be done to pass inspections. Correction fees/reinspection fees got stiffer about 8-10 years ago but still did not turn the amateur away from this. There were also many times where the owner was not actually doing the work but had to be there for the inspector and try to convince him they did the work but at the same time had difficulty answering questions from the inspector because they did not do the work. Many times a true electrician was eventually hired to fix and finish the job once the inspector held up the project enough to make owner give in. (can be good money but owners usually had enough they are no fun to work for)

Class B (contractor or journeyman) licenses are grandfathered licenses for people who once had them when they issued them. The class B limited its holder to residential work only up to 4 family (I think) and 400 amps maximum. Now the only new licenses are Contrator and Journeyman, and they recently brought back a version of the class B journeyman and are calling it residential journeymen. I think mostly same requirements as the old class B. This person could still work under a regular journeyman or contractor on other than residential work, just as an apprentice can.

As far as the ag issue - agrucultural projects are not required to file permit or be inspected. However some power companies are refusing to provide power without an inspection for services operating over 150 volts to ground nominal. This at least helps keep these installations safer at initial construction, but watch out for what may be added later when no inspection is required.

now there is a lot of similarities to our state there. the inspectors complain about the same things here about homeowners and doing there own electrical work. now they get additional fees for every trip after the 2 that are given with the initial permit. all electrical here is required to be inspected but after the original inspection it is amazing what you will find.

 

[jxofaltrds]

So if there is no AHJ how do they enforce? no but it sounds very through on the receiving of compensation for inspection.

There is no enforcement!

 

[cschmid]

There is no enforcement!

interesting, so I assume that rural areas then are unregulated and smaller communities as well? would it be safe to say that 60% of the state is unregulated then? I am just pulling numbers out of the air for sake of conversation. So if it is unregulated then the honor system is a live and well..Then the only reason to even care about the code is professional pride..kudo's to you.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Times they have changed my friend...

If you still have your C-10 - I suggest some light reading of the current laws about who can work for you...

I've been an inspector for twenty years last month. My license has been inactive for over 15 years. I only keep it just in case.

I did indicate that I was sure that someone else would know the answer.

 

[pfalcon]

Opinion: Anything from a non-credentialed person. Sorry, you can't successfully sue.
Advice: Anything casual from a credentialed person. You might be able to sue if you can prove they gave it.
Work: Anything formal from a credentialed person. You can successfully sue.

 

[cschmid]

Opinion: Anything from a non-credentialed person. Sorry, you can't successfully sue.
Advice: Anything casual from a credentialed person. You might be able to sue if you can prove they gave it.
Work: Anything formal from a credentialed person. You can successfully sue.

I like that one :grin:

So how does the regs read in Indiana?

Just for the record it is interesting how other states regulations read in regards to their electrical industry and your opinions of it.

 

[pfalcon]

I like that one :grin:

So how does the regs read in Indiana?

Just for the record it is interesting how other states regulations read in regards to their electrical industry and your opinions of it.

I don't believe a contractor license is required for all electrical work. Permits for specific trades must be pulled by a licensed tradesman. Limits are set for how much work can be done without a permit. Homeowners cannot pull a permit but can do their own work below that level. It gets ugly if a handyman does the work thinking it doesn't need a permit and then the government enforcer decides it does.

 

[cschmid]

oh my..lol so your saying that you do not need to be an electrical contractor to do electrical work..thatn other trades can do work by pulling permit for the work..but home owner can not pull permit..sounds kind of crazy and all about the cash..