new circuits/existing dwelling

[jemsvcs]

Have been doing alot of old work to fill in the gaps this time of year and got to thinking about this:

I'm sure we a have all seen our share of older service panels that have 'given birth' to little load centers all around them. Whether added by 'qualified' electricians or do-it-yourselfers, I often wonder how much thought goes into these additions as to the additional loading on the service conductors.

Would like to hear everyone's thoughts on situations like these and how to go about adding new circuits if you find a 'family' of panels like described above (keeping in mind that not everyone is open to an upgrade...and yes, I don't mind walking away from a job if the customer just wants to take a chance, and I'm never willing to leave anything to chance).

I would say we are primarily concerned with 220.3(C)(1), 220.31, and 240.21(B).

Thanks,

Jemsvcs

 

[pagano21]

Re: new circuits/existing dwelling

Hey Jem, In my experience usally some recepticals and additional lighting is not a problem on add ons. Its when you get into additional appliances, ac units etc. Usally if the service is a 100 amp I will find out if there is elec. water heater or gas , Elec. Furnace ect. Usally with a all gas house there is some room on the service, otherwise service up grade. In short all older homes are different with differnt needs. The volt amp per square foot is good to use however it does not account for appliance loads ect. Happy Wiring... Mike P. AND BREAKER SPACE!!!

 

[jimwalker]

Re: new circuits/existing dwelling

Usually if i find they have already added 2 or 3 extra little panels or disconnects that the work itself has many violations.At that point i inform the customer that while my addition will be fine ,the inspector will force there panels to meet code.Most then ask what i suggest.Some will tell you they can't afford all that.At that point the choice is theres .If i do my work and other items get tagged they will be fixing them.We have all seen the no cover and no romex connectors and the sloppy did it myself work.If its just old and looks ok ,sure i will add a few lighting circuits.

 

[charlie]

Re: new circuits/existing dwelling

If a tail panel is added by a qualified person who has determined that the reason for the addition is for additional circuits that will not overload the service conductors, I do not see a problem. Most are added by installing a feeder from the service equipment to the new distribution panelboard in the same manner as running a new branch circuit. Again, if done properly, I do not see a problem.

 

[tonyi]

Re: new circuits/existing dwelling

You can only load it up so much before the main trips out

Do you mean those where they tapped ahead of the main? I've seen a few of those.

I worry a bit about the poco's lateral sometimes where a service has evolved from 30/60A over the years to much more. Seen this is a bunch of places that were originally single family, then converted into a bunch of small 100A apts...the laterals never seem to get boosted up. Don't see much snow accumulation on those wires

 

[charlie]

Re: new circuits/existing dwelling

Tony, if they are not burning open and we do not get voltage complaints, what is the problem? If they fail, we'll fix them whether it is now or 50 years from now. We have better than a lifetime guarantee on our facilities and we are not going away.