New construction - Recessed Lights: Use Cut in or framing kits?

1

1.21 Gigawatts

Member
Location
Norwalk, CT
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Obviously we install framing kits with open construction. I have a funny feeling customer is going to ask to just do cut ins instead of permanently mounting frames.

Are there any other reasons not to, other than these reasons?

  • dealing with moving them
  • potentially cutting the looped wires
  • trying to remember which bays the loops are in.
  • if they wanted to get rid of the middle ones that would mean a throw away splice would be needed.
Or is it a good idea to just do quick 4" hole saw cuts instead of mounting frames?
 
1.21 Gigawatts said:
Obviously we install framing kits with open construction. I have a funny feeling customer is going to ask to just do cut ins instead of permanently mounting frames.

Are there any other reasons not to, other than these reasons?

  • dealing with moving them
  • potentially cutting the looped wires
  • trying to remember which bays the loops are in.
  • if they wanted to get rid of the middle ones that would mean a throw away splice would be needed.
Or is it a good idea to just do quick 4" hole saw cuts instead of mounting frames?
Click to expand...
Yes there is another reason: making a mess, getting covered in drywall dust, filling your drill up with drywall dust.
 
If you just leave cables looped, and you don't use frames, then you'll need a drawing of the floorplan which you can mark locations on, then know where they are on the finish so you can cut them in

I've done it. It's a lot of extra work
 
I stopped leaving loops long ago. I prefer to let the drywaller make all the cuts. I hate cutting blindly later, making a mess that I have to clean, and hoping that the cable will still be there.

During rough after I have it all installed according to what the homeowner wants, I always send them a text message telling them to check it out and confirm that the layout is what they want and let me know. This is a simple way of having them “sign off“ on it.
 
James L said:
If you just leave cables looped, and you don't use frames, then you'll need a drawing of the floorplan which you can mark locations on, then know where they are on the finish so you can cut them in

I've done it. It's a lot of extra work
Click to expand...
I always make a video of each room. That works well, except for one house that had over 100 recessed wafer lights. When it was time to cut out for the lights, I tried to pull up my video. Turns out my SD card in my camera had crapped out and I lost all my pictures. I had to go in the attic and locate the loops for the great room.. Luckily I remembered the distance from the wall for the lights in the kitchen and bedrooms.
Somehow the basement video survived the crash.

Two lessons I learned from that:
1.) Always back up your phone to the cloud
2.) Have a back up plan, like making a drawing of the floor plan and light locations, like you mentioned!
 
Little Bill said:
I always make a video of each room.
Click to expand...
I don't know how you can tell where the lights are from a video.

Install your rough-in frames before the rockers and finished floor. Get your laser out and mark where the center of the cutout is on the subfloor. After the rock it's a simple matter to again use your laser and with a Roto Zip do the cutouts.

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
I don't know how you can tell where the lights are from a video.

Install your rough-in frames before the rockers and finished floor. Get your laser out and mark where the center of the cutout is on the subfloor. After the rock it's a simple matter to again use your laser and with a Roto Zip do the cutouts.

-Hal
Click to expand...
When you install rough in frames, you cut out the drywall?
 
Little Bill said:
I always make a video of each room. That works well, except for one house that had over 100 recessed wafer lights. When it was time to cut out for the lights, I tried to pull up my video. Turns out my SD card in my camera had crapped out and I lost all my pictures. I had to go in the attic and locate the loops for the great room.. Luckily I remembered the distance from the wall for the lights in the kitchen and bedrooms.
Somehow the basement video survived the crash.

Two lessons I learned from that:
1.) Always back up your phone to the cloud
2.) Have a back up plan, like making a drawing of the floor plan and light locations, like you mentioned!
Click to expand...
I had one of those houses that had about a hundred lights in it. I thought instead of making a drawing I would just use nails, then draw a circle around them with spray paint. I told the builder at least a half dozen times to let me know after the drywall got done and before anybody else went in there to work. He didn't call me till all the floor tile was set in the five bathrooms, So all of my marks were covered

It was an architectural style home, with basically flat roofs, so I didn't have attic space above four of the bathrooms. Fortunately, I remembered correctly on all of them and I didn't miss.
 
hbiss said:
I don't know how you can tell where the lights are from a video.

Install your rough-in frames before the rockers and finished floor. Get your laser out and mark where the center of the cutout is on the subfloor. After the rock it's a simple matter to again use your laser and with a Roto Zip do the cutouts.

-Hal
Click to expand...
That's what I thought I was going to do. But I did a layout on the floor first. Then drove a nail where each light was supposed to be

You're still relying on timing - after drywall and before any finished flooring goes in
 
James L said:
I had one of those houses that had about a hundred lights in it. I thought instead of making a drawing I would just use nails, then draw a circle around them with spray paint. I told the builder at least a half dozen times to let me know after the drywall got done and before anybody else went in there to work. He didn't call me till all the floor tile was set in the five bathrooms, So all of my marks were covered
Click to expand...
To be safe, take a tape measure and from a wall lay it along your marks and take a picture. Do the same thing 90 deg from another wall... you get the idea. This could be a video.

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
I don't know how you can tell where the lights are from a video.

Install your rough-in frames before the rockers and finished floor. Get your laser out and mark where the center of the cutout is on the subfloor. After the rock it's a simple matter to again use your laser and with a Roto Zip do the cutouts.

-Hal
Click to expand...
I write the measurements from the wall, and other objects, on the joists, or trusts. Then when I view the video, I look at the measurements and cut out the holes, reach in and grab the loop, and wire the lights in.

Also, I don't make drywall dust mess, I use a bowl on the hole saw. Also, do the cut-outs before insulation is in.
 
One advantage of cut ins:
They're better sealed. Less chance of attic dust, insulation bits, getting into the space.
And less chance of humidity from the room getting into the attic.
This is especially important for cathedral ceilings, which never vent moisture well.
 
brycenesbitt said:
One advantage of cut ins:
They're better sealed. Less chance of attic dust, insulation bits, getting into the space.
And less chance of humidity from the room getting into the attic.
This is especially important for cathedral ceilings, which never vent moisture well.
Click to expand...
When you mention cut-ins, are you talking about a full can?
 
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