new flourescent light ds rule

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tyha

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Location
central nc
we have a project that has x amount of 2x4 fl fixtures. we were awarded the project about a year ago and just called for an overhead ruff in. in the state of nc you are bound by the code that is in force at the time of the permit being issued, which in this case was 2005. but when the fixtures showed up they had the wago things already installed. so the foreman i had there at the time told the guys just to cut them off because it took longer to make up the lights (because he was daisy chaining them). well the inspector stated we have faulted the ul design and he wants us to reinstall all the wago or get new lights. we are talking about over 200 fixtures here. when they called me out there i looked at the fixtures and they were absolutely no different than the ones without the wagos. its the same fixture. how do you think i need to handle this. suck it up and re-install some wagos or contact our vendor and have him forward us some documentation about how what we did does not effect the ul rating because it is the same fixture.
 
The 2005 code rule states that the rule comes into force on January 1, 2008, meaning this is not a 2008 NEC rule, but rather a 2005 NEC rule that comes into effect in 2008. So if these were installed after the first of this year, then you're going to have to go back and reinstall the disconnects.
 
1) Verify that your permit and design approvals etc from 2005 were filed then (and NOT last month). Assuming so...

2) Contact the fixture maker and their engineering dept to write a nice letter saying that the wago's don't change their UL status for pre 2008 approvals.

3) Armed with that letter (to certify the obvious) go up the AHJ foodchain to show that your permit and approval process was based on the 2005 code.
 
peter d said:
The 2005 code rule states that the rule comes into force on January 1, 2008, meaning this is not a 2008 NEC rule, but rather a 2005 NEC rule that comes into effect in 2008. So if these were installed after the first of this year, then you're going to have to go back and reinstall the disconnects.
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Peter is correct IF you installed these fixtures after Jan.1, 2008 you are required to have the disconnects. Just like the dual afci it is a 2005 code that took effect 1-1-08.
 
dooOOH

dooOOH

peter d said:
The 2005 code rule states that the rule comes into force on January 1, 2008, meaning this is not a 2008 NEC rule, but rather a 2005 NEC rule that comes into effect in 2008. So if these were installed after the first of this year, then you're going to have to go back and reinstall the disconnects.
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Peter you answered it!!:roll:
 
tyha said:
they had the wago things already installed.
~well the inspector stated we have faulted the ul design and he wants us to reinstall all the wago or get new lights.
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Do you mean these things - 'disconnect plugs'? They - or something like it is required by 410.130G in the '08 code - but not part of the fixture listing.... And a "disconnecting means" could be a lot of things IMO - not necessarily a plug.
96751_082220072725_ExhibitPic.jpg


Or these things?
ip45.jpg


Neither have anything to do with the listing of the fixture IMO

The disconnect thing IMO is just another way to dumb down the work - even a caveman could do it..... (Change a ballast)
 
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buckofdurham said:
Is that light mounted disconnect required on all flourescents? Or just when you can not see the wall switch?
410.130 (G
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The '08 at least says to the effect of 'attached - OR within site' in G3
 
tyha said:
but when the fixtures showed up they had the wago things already installed. so the foreman i had there at the time told the guys just to cut them off because it took longer to make up the lights (because he was daisy chaining them).
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I don't understand...you have two wires to hook up for the fixture. They either come directly out of the ballast or the come out of the internal disconnect. There should be no difference in the labor either way.
If I was the fixture manufacturer, I would never give you a document that says it was ok to remove the disconnects. That would increase my liability because I told you that you did not have to use a code required safety device. You should plan on replacing the disconnects.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
I don't understand...you have two wires to hook up for the fixture. They either come directly out of the ballast or the come out of the internal disconnect.
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Some of the fixtures are being shipped without leads coming out of the disconnect. The fixtures I've used lately just dead end the ballast wires into the disconnect, leaving the other ports open for the field wiring.

This necessitates making a short pigtail of #12 or whatever to go into the disconnect because it only accepts one pair of wires.
 
yes they have adopted the 08 code here as of 01/01/08. we are daisy chaining them. but only one ckt or switch leg per cable run. the difference in labor is having to jumper between the joint on the daisy chain and the connector. I mean take it easy on me, if I were there I would have just included the connector and that would have been the end of it but my dedicated foreman recalls all the meetings we have about trying to reduce labor because I am constantly showing them that it is the one majoir thing we can control in order to have a project stay within budget.
 
tyha said:
I mean take it easy on me, if I were there I would have just included the connector and that would have been the end of it but my dedicated foreman recalls all the meetings we have about trying to reduce labor because I am constantly showing them that it is the one majoir thing we can control in order to have a project stay within budget.
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Reducing labor costs is fine. You still have to comply with the code.
 
So now you gotta go back and fix what would have been less than 1 minute to do it right.What does that do to the budget.I seen my first of these this past month and love the idea.
 
I'd say just cut the ballast black and white wires in the middle and strip and insert the disconnects there.

In my opinion, the fixtures should come with a few inches of wire already installed in the line-side holes.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
.I seen my first of these this past month and love the idea.
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I agree, It's that 277 v -neutral with a load on it that gets you. Pow!!! , off the ladder you go, Through the cieling tile. Thank god when you hit the floor, it starts your heart back.

Those three circuits sharing a neutral.

This is where the three pole breaker is going to help with this situation, too.
 
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