New house

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kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
If that was the case most service calls I do i would lose money on fixing other peoples violations…… hard to convince a customer they have to pay for that
service call and installing a new circuit aren't the same thing either though. That don't mean service call at times doesn't turn into running a new circuit in which case it probably should be done to current code. But just troubleshooting and replacing a component, other than a few cases where NEC specifies replacements be in accordance with current rules, you normally do just replace the bad component.
 

retirede

Senior Member
Location
Illinois
let’s try this.

How many circuits would you run for this house total!?

2 - 20 amp small appliance branch circuits
1 20 amp refrigerator line
1 20 amp bathroom circuit
2 15 amp outlet circuit
2 15 amp lighting circuit
1 2 pole 30 for dryer !?

Mind you this cottage has 100 amp panel

Since you have a laundry area (you mention dryer), you would need a 120V circuit to supply the laundry area.
20A dedicated refrigerator circuit is overkill, especially for that sized dwelling.
 

Ajr188

Member
Location
New York
Occupation
electrician
Since you have a laundry area (you mention dryer), you would need a 120V circuit to supply the laundry area.
20A dedicated refrigerator circuit is overkill, especially for that sized dwelling.
Don’t I need a 20 amp dedicated circuit by code
 

Strathead

Senior Member
Location
Ocala, Florida, USA
Occupation
Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
Good morning.

I am in the process of roughing this tiny 660 sq ft house, that has 3 bed rooms. My question to you guys is can I put multiple bed rooms on 1 15amp circuit or do I have to to run each bed room separately. There is literally 4 outlets per bed room and one led light in middle of room.
While no one is likely to do this, you, nothing says you have to distribute the required circuits evenly. You could put one outlet on each of 2 circuits and all the rest on the third circuit.
 

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
The load calc section at 3 watts/ sq foot would allow 480 square feet for a 15 amp circuit
Again this is not correct because you are still using 80%. 1800 watts which means 600 sq.ft. Nowhere does it state use 80%

220.14(J) Dwelling Units.

In one-family, two-family, and multifamily dwellings, the minimum unit load shall be not less than 33 volt-amperes/m2 (3 volt-amperes/ft2). The lighting and receptacle outlets specified in 220.14(J)(1), (J)(2), and (J)(3) are included in the minimum unit load. No additional load calculations shall be required for such outlets. The minimum lighting load shall be determined using the minimum unit load and the floor area as determined in 220.11 for dwelling occupancies. Motors rated less than 1⁄8 hp and connected to a lighting circuit shall be considered part of the minimum lighting load.
  • (1)
    All general-use receptacle outlets of 20-ampere rating or less, including receptacles connected to the circuits in 210.11(C)(3) and 210.11(C)(4)
  • (2)
    The receptacle outlets specified in 210.52(E) and (G)
  • (3)
    The lighting outlets specified in 210.70
 

RDF

Member
Location
CT
Occupation
Retired Electrical Inspector
If that was the case most service calls I do i would lose money on fixing other peoples violations…… hard to convince a customer they have to pay for that
So if you were called because the GFCI for a swimming pool kept tripping and found that the pool was not bonded and grounded to the requirements of the NEC, would you not propose to your customer that be remedied or just leave it as it is? It is a fact of life that some electricians or handymen either don't know the code or just don't care. As an inspector for a city that required licensed electricians and inspections for electrical work, I learned fairly early that a lot of work is performed by unqualified individuals including homeowners. As an electrician, I found myself continually coming across improper, non-code-compliant work. If the customer doesn't want me to fix it, I walk away. If you're the last qualified individual to work on an electrical circuit and you find it deficient in some way, where do you draw the line? You could be liable for other people's mistakes if something should occur subsequent to your work. How would you feel if someone subsequently was injured or died because of a defect that you didn't address? Of course, you can't be held responsible for anything that is concealed but sometimes it's better to walk away with a clean conscience than it is to worry when that relatively minor job will come back to bite you. It's a tough line to walk but if you plan on being an electrical contractor as your career, you have to protect yourself from liability. Sometimes, you have to decide to walk rather than incur liability or even worse, guilt over not remedying a hazardous condition because the customer wouldn't pay. I'm not criticizing you. I'm merely responding to the above quote.
 

Chamuit

Grumpy Old Man
Location
Texas
Occupation
Electrician
So if you were called because the GFCI for a swimming pool kept tripping and found that the pool was not bonded and grounded to the requirements of the NEC, would you not propose ..........k rather than incur liability or even worse, guilt over not remedying a hazardous condition because the customer wouldn't pay. I'm not criticizing you. I'm merely responding to the above quote.
I used to note the deficiencies that I was aware of with the recommendation that they be fixed. *IF* they touched the work I was performing. Some work requires you to correct deficiencies around it.
 

Fred B

Senior Member
Location
Upstate, NY
Occupation
Electrician
Might want to look at 220.14(J)(1),(2),(3).
Dwelling units there are no requirements for a set minimum number of receptacle circuits, the load calculations for general use receptacles are included in the lighting load per sqft. But does not include other required receptacle circuits like kitchen, bath, laundry, etc
It would appear that this requirement might only indicate a minimum of 2 circuits based on 660sqft x 3va per sqft = 1980VA under general lighting and receptacles load for the 660sqft home.
Requirements related to minimum VA per receptacle strap found in 220.14(I) not applicable to the receptacle calculations related to 220.14(J).
 

curt swartz

Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
Location
San Jose, CA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
While no one is likely to do this, you, nothing says you have to distribute the required circuits evenly. You could put one outlet on each of 2 circuits and all the rest on the third circuit.
210.11(B) Load Evenly Proportioned Among Branch Circuits.
Where the load is calculated on the basis of volt-amperes per
square meter or per square foot, the wiring system up to and
including the branch-circuit panelboard(s) shall be provided to
serve not less than the calculated load. This load shall be evenly
proportioned among multioutlet branch circuits within the
panelboard(s). Branch-circuit overcurrent devices and circuits
shall be required to be installed only to serve the connected
load.
 
Location
Ontario
Occupation
Manager
Good morning.

I am in the process of roughing this tiny 660 sq ft house, that has 3 bed rooms. My question to you guys is can I put multiple bed rooms on 1 15amp circuit or do I have to to run each bed room separately. There is literally 4 outlets per bed room and one led light in middle of room.
If all the outlets are on separate breakers, then you can use any combination for the number of circuits you want. However, if the outlets are on the same breaker, then you should probably use one 15 amp circuit for the 3 outlets, and put the lights on another circuit. If you don't have dedicated breakers for the outlets, then you can only use 1 circuit for the outlets, and you'll have to figure out which one doesn't have the outlet you need, and then you can use that circuit for the lights. If you don't have enough outlets to use one circuit, then you'll have to run a new circuit to reach the new outlets, and then run it to the old ones to make the old circuits reachable while you do the work.
 

Strathead

Senior Member
Location
Ocala, Florida, USA
Occupation
Electrician/Estimator/Project Manager/Superintendent
So if you were called because the GFCI for a swimming pool kept tripping and found that the pool was not bonded and grounded to the requirements of the NEC, would you not propose to your customer that be remedied or just leave it as it is? It is a fact of life that some electricians or handymen either don't know the code or just don't care. As an inspector for a city that required licensed electricians and inspections for electrical work, I learned fairly early that a lot of work is performed by unqualified individuals including homeowners. As an electrician, I found myself continually coming across improper, non-code-compliant work. If the customer doesn't want me to fix it, I walk away. If you're the last qualified individual to work on an electrical circuit and you find it deficient in some way, where do you draw the line? You could be liable for other people's mistakes if something should occur subsequent to your work. How would you feel if someone subsequently was injured or died because of a defect that you didn't address? Of course, you can't be held responsible for anything that is concealed but sometimes it's better to walk away with a clean conscience than it is to worry when that relatively minor job will come back to bite you. It's a tough line to walk but if you plan on being an electrical contractor as your career, you have to protect yourself from liability. Sometimes, you have to decide to walk rather than incur liability or even worse, guilt over not remedying a hazardous condition because the customer wouldn't pay. I'm not criticizing you. I'm merely responding to the above quote.
I would educate the customer about the above deficiency and strongly suggest they correct it. It totally depends on the safety concerns of the violation.
 
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RDF

Member
Location
CT
Occupation
Retired Electrical Inspector
If all the outlets are on separate breakers, then you can use any combination for the number of circuits you want. However, if the outlets are on the same breaker, then you should probably use one 15 amp circuit for the 3 outlets, and put the lights on another circuit. If you don't have dedicated breakers for the outlets, then you can only use 1 circuit for the outlets, and you'll have to figure out which one doesn't have the outlet you need, and then you can use that circuit for the lights. If you don't have enough outlets to use one circuit, then you'll have to run a new circuit to reach the new outlets, and then run it to the old ones to make the old circuits reachable while you do the work.
It was my practice when wiring a remodel or new construction that I would place bedroom receptacles on exterior walls on one circuit and receptacles on interior walls on a different circuit. That way, if you lost one circuit, you still had power available to the room. Lighting was always on a separate circuit.
 

Little Bill

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Tennessee NEC:2017
Occupation
Semi-Retired Electrician
It was my practice when wiring a remodel or new construction that I would place bedroom receptacles on exterior walls on one circuit and receptacles on interior walls on a different circuit. That way, if you lost one circuit, you still had power available to the room. Lighting was always on a separate circuit.
Hard to do (price wise) today with all the AFCI/GFCI requirements. Oh and the wire prices don't help either.
 
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