new outlet in existing bed room?

Status
Not open for further replies.
davedottcom

davedottcom

Senior Member
Can you add an outlet to an existing bedroom that is NOT AFCI protected?
Customer wants an outlet added up high on the wall for a TV that's mounted close to ceiling. Circuit is not AFCI protected since it wasn't required at the time it was wired. Do I need to install a AFCI breaker now? What if it's a multi wire circuit and there is no way to access the panel to pull a new HR? Do I have to tell him NO? :confused:

Dave
 
Re: new outlet in existing bed room?

My off the cuff answer is yes. However, their maybe an exception. This requires a call to the AHJ. If there is no AHJ, I would stay with the yes.
This is not a problem in Wisconsin. State code does not require AFCI.
 
Re: new outlet in existing bed room?

I think anything new must be to code.Could you replace a defective outlet yes but add no.I do see your point and it would be better than a cord.
Your walking on thin ice.If you do and there is a fire i would not want to be you.Why not see if its a single circuit and add the afci to the bedroom ?
 
Re: new outlet in existing bed room?

Why not see if its a single circuit and add the afci to the bedroom ?
Click to expand...
That's the scenerio I'm hoping to find! I think I'll TRY the AFCI breaker on the circuit FIRST to make sure it works ok, then if so I'll add the outlet.

Dave
 
Re: new outlet in existing bed room?

The real problem is if you cant because its a multi circuit ,you can bet some electrician or handyman will.Perhaps you should call the ahj but im thinking they would need to say no just out of the liability issue.
Another thought is if it is a multi see whats on each one and maybe combine them to one circuit.It may not have much on either one

[ March 15, 2005, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: jimwalker ]
 
Re: new outlet in existing bed room?

Dave,

I face this, frequently, in an area with a lot of older housing stock, old enough to have ungrounded wiring methods as the original system. The new outlet will be required in order to comply with the minimum standard for an existing dwelling. The general rule is, the existing outlets are allowed to remain without AFCI protection, but anynew outlets must have AFCI protection.
 
Re: new outlet in existing bed room?

I know at least one inspector that would allow a new receptacle to be non-AFI because it would probably require significantly reworking the building. But I think in most cases the jury would say to build a new house.
 
Re: new outlet in existing bed room?

Sam,this ahj allowing stuff is what just got me bashed last evening.They either use 2002 or they dont.We live in a sue happy world.If anything went wrong that county would be involved.Does seem they could make an amendment to 2002 to a degree for houses that complied at time built if one was adding only a receptacle or perhaps a ceiling fan.We have billions of homes out there with no afci.Would not want to tell someone that the house i wired for you 3 years ago is not safe anymore so i cant add that receptacle for the tv.
 
Re: new outlet in existing bed room?

They'll have to go after the inspector Jim. :D

I don't suppose it's much different than having to bring in a new circuit for a bathroom.
 
Re: new outlet in existing bed room?

Yes they go after the inspector and his employer (county).That is why inspectors will not let things slide that they see and know are violations.There is no more common since in this buisness.How will 1 more receptacle cause any major safety issue in this house? Here everything goes my date of activating permit.I wired some town houses with permits that were a year old before activated.2002 was in force at time but permit was under 99 so no arcfaults.Rewire a 1920's home same month and had to put afci in.Go figure the logic.
 
Re: new outlet in existing bed room?

I mean Bob and Roger 'll have to go after the inspector. I didn't do anything. :D
 
Re: new outlet in existing bed room?

Tighten up Sam, your slacking. ;)

Jim, although you're going to think I'm hammering you, you still were in violation if you didn't use AFCI circuits in these town houses.

I wired some town houses with permits that were a year old before activated.2002 was in force at time but permit was under 99 so no arcfaults.
Click to expand...
Your inspectors missed it again if this was truly the case.

On January 1 2002 "receptacle outlets" were required to be AFCI protected in the 99 code cycle, so you and your inspectors were in the wrong not installing or requiring them to be installed.

See 210-12(b) in the 99 NEC.

Roger
 
Re: new outlet in existing bed room?

I like all the codes Roger.
mixed-smiley-030.gif
 
Re: new outlet in existing bed room?

Roger i was following orders from my boss.Since the permit was issued under 99 nec it is just like they never adopted 2002.Basically i was using 99 nec. Is it not true that some places are still on 99 code and not using afci ?I would very much rathered following 2002 but was not my call.Its a loophole they use here when they see a new code comming.It is a cut off by permit number
 
Re: new outlet in existing bed room?

Jim, read 210-12(b) in the 99 NEC, even if you are still under the 99 NEC, AFCI's became part of the 99 NEC on January 1, 2002. You are like many who thought this date meant addoption of the 2002, this is not the case.

Sam, becareful, paybacks can be Hell paybacks
lam.gif


Roger

[ March 16, 2005, 08:21 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top