new panel in existing no ground system

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
Are you replacing the disconnect? Does the disco have an OCPD in it? If so you need to make a GES and connect it to the neutral in the service disconnect. Could be as simple as two ground rods. You'll need a 4-wire or 5-wre feeder to the new panel.
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
Nothing wrong with that panel to me. I'm also seeing a green EGC with the load conductors from that disconnect that looks to be bonded to neutral. No fuses in that disconnect so where is that disconnect fed from and why is it there? Where does that green go?

-Hal
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
This appears to be the service disconnect with the fuses missing. Cannot really tell if the neutral is factory bonded to the enclosure but there does appear to be an EGC and a GEC.

 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
This appears to be the service disconnect with the fuses missing.
Yes, I see that now. So your only question is whether you need to install ground rods and bond to the water line because you are doing this upgrade, right? I would say that the inspector is going to want to see it done.

-Hal
 

LarryFine

Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Location
Henrico County, VA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
The block on the lower right is the neutral block, and should be connected to the enclosure with either a bolt or a wire jumper, like to the lug peeking out on the left.

That's also where the premises grounding system begins, and where the electrodes should be terminated.
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
If it wasn't for the flex conduit, other metallic conduits could serve as the EGC.

Don't know the history of using flex for EGC, maybe it was compliant when it was new?
 

hbiss

EC, Westchester, New York NEC: 2014
Location
Hawthorne, New York NEC: 2014
Occupation
EC
I originally didn't see the green in the new panel, only at the disconnect. So I was wondering the same thing about the flex and thinking whether a separate EGC was needed. But he did pull an EGC so all is good.

-Hal
 

al hildenbrand

Senior Member
Location
Minnesota
Occupation
Electrical Contractor, Electrical Consultant, Electrical Engineer
I need to replace the existing panel and increase the size of it. This panel is fed by the disconnect that has no grounding (the building was built back in 60's). I'd like to know what I should do with it. The building is located in MD.

Updates:

I'm helping the church to increase the size and # of breakers of a panel. The old panel was 70A and it's replaced as 100A (as shown in the first picture). The panel is fed by an existing disconnect (2nd picture), which is 100A as well. The cable was good for 100A, but its still be replaced because it's deteriorated. While the electrician installing the new cable, they told me that the existing disconnect does not have EGC. Actually, there is no EGC for the entire system. The electrician said a grounding electrode need to be installed, but I wonder if it's necessary since it's existing condition.
What are the LINE conductors of the existing disconnect in your second photo connected to? An electric meter? Additional electrical panel(s)?

I have a hunch you are saying "EGC" to mean Grounding Electrode System.

If the church has a metallic water pipe system from a well, or from a municipal water utility, the 1960s National Electrical Codes would have required the electrical service disconnecting means to be bonded with a Grounding Electrode Conductor.
 
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