New Square D AFCI and GFCI combo breakers

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mark32

mark32

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Not sure if anyone has seen these yet but they appear to be available. I just received some literature describing these combo breakers (For QO and Homeline) as well as double pole AFCI's.

part # for QO combo QO115DFC
" " Homeline HOM115DFC
Replace the 15 for a 20 if you need a 20.

Part # for QO double pole arc's QO215CAFIC, the Homeline version HOM215CAFIC
 
Both Schneider Electric (Square D) and Siemens have a "Circuit Breaker with Ground-fault Circuit Interrupter and Combination-type Arc-fault Circuit Interrupter Protection" listed in accordance with ANSI/UL 489, 943 & 1699. The other big players (Eaton / GE) will have them available soon as well...
 
mark32 said:
Not sure if anyone has seen these yet but they appear to be available. I just received some literature describing these combo breakers (For QO and Homeline) as well as double pole AFCI's.

part # for QO combo QO115DFC
" " Homeline HOM115DFC
Replace the 15 for a 20 if you need a 20.

Part # for QO double pole arc's QO215CAFIC, the Homeline version HOM215CAFIC
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Is this a combination AFCI as required effective Jan 1, 2008?
Or is it a dual function AFCI/GFCI?
 
gaelectric said:
This CB is rated the same GFCI milliamps to ground trip threshold as a GFCI receptacle? Anyone know that for sure?
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In addition to being called a GFCI, which by itself implies 6ma threshold, the sticker on the front of the breaker also identifies it as Class A. That means 6ma limit also. The GF detection and interruption function provided as a side feature in the older combo AFCI breakers was Class B, with a threshold which is time dependent but in the general range of 30ma.

You can read a handy description of GFI classes here: http://www.csemag.com/single-article/ul-s-new-gfci-classes/89c8746cdc4a7fd8a3cb93f1d51ba57a.html

For some reason it almost ignores Class B.
 
Has anyone seen these breakers at any suppliers/distributors? Ive seen it listed for $88 at HD, and Amazon allows you to put in to be notified. My local distributor has none and theyve called their suppliers... But I suspect that not every distributor has the same suppliers...

Thanks!
 
JHZR2 said:
Has anyone seen these breakers at any suppliers/distributors? Ive seen it listed for $88 at HD, and Amazon allows you to put in to be notified. My local distributor has none and theyve called their suppliers... But I suspect that not every distributor has the same suppliers...

Thanks!
Click to expand...
The factory authorized distributors all have the same supplier:happyyes:
 
JHZR2 said:
Doesnt mean they have stock...

At least all the supply houses I've called don't have them and can't seem to get them...yet :(
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True, but their supplier is the manufacturer, if they can't get them yet, it is kind of Square D's issue, they apparently don't have enough production yet - maybe a way to help keep the price up, maybe just a temporary issue. Maybe they have a product, but don't have facilities up and running in Mexico to make them in larger bulk at lower labor rates. - All just speculation.
 
kwired said:
True, but their supplier is the manufacturer, if they can't get them yet, it is kind of Square D's issue, they apparently don't have enough production yet - maybe a way to help keep the price up, maybe just a temporary issue. Maybe they have a product, but don't have facilities up and running in Mexico to make them in larger bulk at lower labor rates. - All just speculation.
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Understood.
 
JHZR2 said:
Has anyone seen these breakers at any suppliers/distributors? Ive seen it listed for $88 at HD, and Amazon allows you to put in to be notified. My local distributor has none and theyve called their suppliers... But I suspect that not every distributor has the same suppliers...

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Graybar has them in stock
 
I've seen them on Homedepot.com and one of the local Square D distributors carries them. I have not seen any products from the other three manufacturers yet.
 
HD has them in their site but they aren't available.


I dont don't have an account with graybar so haven't done business with them before. Can they readily transfer product between sites? For example, if I want to will call in NJ, can they transfer stock if they don't have any?


thanks!
 
Home Depot web site states delivery time in a week from order time. :happyyes:
Just wonder what all of these AFCI ; GFCI ; & combination breakers will be like putting the extra heat in a panel? :? Will extra heat cause nuisance tripping ??:?
 
JHZR2 said:
HD has them in their site but they aren't available.


I dont don't have an account with graybar so haven't done business with them before. Can they readily transfer product between sites? For example, if I want to will call in NJ, can they transfer stock if they don't have any?


thanks!
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If they are going to charge you for shipping, I'd just have them sent directly to you instead of the local branch, especially if it is somewhat inconvenient to stop there to pick it up. I get that sometimes with some of my suppliers - they have an item in another location, but it will cost me shipping to get it - well then you may as well ship it directly to me if I am paying shipping either way.
 
JDB3 said:
Home Depot web site states delivery time in a week from order time. :happyyes:
Just wonder what all of these AFCI ; GFCI ; & combination breakers will be like putting the extra heat in a panel? :? Will extra heat cause nuisance tripping ??:?
Click to expand...
HD has probably chosen not to stock them at least for now, delivery in a week must mean they expect to be able to get them though. I'd bet their price will go down some when they start to buy them in big enough bulk for stocking them.

The heat issue was a topic of discussion when they took away the 42 circuit limitation and lighting and appliance panelboard definition back in 2008 NEC.

I honestly don't think there is enough continuous load in the typical dwelling that this will be much of a problem. About the only time I have ever noticed heat in a dwelling panel (for other then bad connections creating heat) is for heating or cooling loads, not much of anything else runs long enough to create much heat in the panel. Maybe a pool pump could do that - but I don't really run into those that much so I haven't seen it.

I have run into many commercial/industrial panels where there is obviously some heat developing in a panel where there are many continuous loads.
 
I just used them for the first time on a kitchen remodel. I realized that there is potential complication for trouble shooting.

My customer called to tell me that one of the small appliance circuits was tripping off and they couldn't tell why.
Thinking about it before I went over I saw that having the gfi and afi protection in one breaker means that I couldn't tell right away which function was reacting to something it didn't like. If the circuit was AF protected by a breaker and there was a GFI receptacle protecting the counter, it would be immediately apparent which one was tripping.

So I have decided that, despite the slightly decreased cost of using them, I will only do it where it helps out, like a dishwasher or dedicated refrigerator circuit.
 
edlee said:
I just used them for the first time on a kitchen remodel. I realized that there is potential complication for trouble shooting.

My customer called to tell me that one of the small appliance circuits was tripping off and they couldn't tell why.
Thinking about it before I went over I saw that having the gfi and afi protection in one breaker means that I couldn't tell right away which function was reacting to something it didn't like. If the circuit was AF protected by a breaker and there was a GFI receptacle protecting the counter, it would be immediately apparent which one was tripping.

So I have decided that, despite the slightly decreased cost of using them, I will only do it where it helps out, like a dishwasher or dedicated refrigerator circuit.
Click to expand...

That is why they have a built in diagnostic system: http://download.schneider-electric.com/files?p_File_Id=363523689&p_File_Name=0700HO1402.pdf
Granted, this does not give you obvious and instant indication as would separate devices.
 
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