new Square D "Schneider Pulse" panel

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brantmacga

brantmacga

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I saw some press on this a few weeks ago, but no details. Matt Risinger has a new video out, and it has little details, but you can at least see a few pics of what's happening.



I took some screenshots I'll attach here, but I can see a split-bus panel (they mention that in the video), what looks like an EcoStruxure module, and bus-mounted QO relays for load-shedding. The complete system involves battery-backup, an inverter, and EVSE. So this would somewhat be the Square D OEM version of the SPAN panel. Except there are no relays behind the bus, and instead of individual circuit monitoring, I believe it uses the Wiser Energy (Sense) energy monitoring system.
 

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letgomywago said:
Idk those look like their normal afcis
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jim dungar said:
Some of these breaker look like standard QO.
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The yellow test button ones should be GFCI's. The purple test button ones are dual function, not sure if those with the green face area under the test button are something new or just a new designed DF but still normal DF breaker though. The other modules with no handle are relay modules from what he says? Must still have overcurrent protection incorporated into them?
 
kwired said:
The yellow test button ones should be GFCI's. The purple test button ones are dual function, not sure if those with the green face area under the test button are something new or just a new designed DF but still normal DF breaker though. The other modules with no handle are relay modules from what he says? Must still have overcurrent protection incorporated into them?
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Do you know if the relay modules will have load shed capability so they could add in loads that would otherwise push the service such as vehicle chargers and pool loads. It'd be nice some of the very large homes I've wired end up with a 600 amp service when in reality a 320 would cover it if the large pool, 4 chargers, 3 or 4 ovens and electric driveway deice could just not be able to run at the same exact moments.
 
kwired said:
The yellow test button ones should be GFCI's. The purple test button ones are dual function, not sure if those with the green face area under the test button are something new or just a new designed DF but still normal DF breaker though. The other modules with no handle are relay modules from what he says? Must still have overcurrent protection incorporated into them?
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My guess is that the relays have no OCPD built-in, and that they’re connected between an adjacent circuit breaker and the load.

The bottom left of the upper bus module is different from the two above it. So either that is a 2-pole and the two modules above it are 1-pole, or it’s a bus-mounted control transformer similar to the old QO Power Logic transformer.

I imagine they have some wired connectivity with what I think is an EcoStruxure module in the bottom of the panel. Could be wireless connectivity also. That control module is likely going to be branded as Wiser Energy, because they mention in the video that it also communicates with their line of Wiser wireless switches and receptacles.

What I’m taking away from this though is that with these components being able to install on the QO bus, you can likely retrofit this into an existing QO installation.


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letgomywago said:
Do you know if the relay modules will have load shed capability so they could add in loads that would otherwise push the service such as vehicle chargers and pool loads. It'd be nice some of the very large homes I've wired end up with a 600 amp service when in reality a 320 would cover it if the large pool, 4 chargers, 3 or 4 ovens and electric driveway deice could just not be able to run at the same exact moments.
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I don’t know anything beyond what’s shown in the video, and their press release from CES.

They are load shed relays, but the purpose will be for turning off devices when you are running off battery backup in a PV installation.

For what you describe, I was just recently made aware by another member here of a company called PSP products that make load-shed relays that utilize CT’s connected to the service, and can be programmed to turn off when a certain usage threshold is met.

Home - PSP Products, Inc.

Commercial & Industrial Surge Protection PSP manufactures a diverse selection of surge protection devices (SPDs) designed to meet the needs of any application. Learn More Generator Load Management PSP is the industry leader in load management systems. Some of our “Industry Firsts” include...
www.pspproducts.com www.pspproducts.com

The member that shared that with me is using them for EVSE installations to disable charging when the service can’t handle the full load if other appliances are running. They’re also a good product to use in any standby power installation.


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Jraef said:
Trilliant reborn?
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I wouldn’t think so. They’re new products for the existing QO line. I think you’re going to see the same thing from other manufacturers. Eaton has a new remote switching breaker called “Smart Breaker” that is made for basically the same purpose, but it’s not a full solution as they don’t offer any control software for it, just an API you can write your own control software with. They’re extremely expensive though. I quoted some 50/2 breakers for a project last year and they were $400/ea.


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Are parts going to be easily available ? Will you have to have a technician trouble shoot an issue instead of just a regular electrician ? I know I'm little more old school but working maintenance I'm used to seeing equipment with the latest electronics work great until it doesn't . Is this something the average home owner really needs ? I can remember being told the dryer, oven , hot water heater , air conditioning , those are your high energy use . Will someone be looking at the panel in 30 years saying it's old but never had an issue with it ...
 
brantmacga said:
I wouldn’t think so. They’re new products for the existing QO line. I think you’re going to see the same thing from other manufacturers. Eaton has a new remote switching breaker called “Smart Breaker” that is made for basically the same purpose, but it’s not a full solution as they don’t offer any control software for it, just an API you can write your own control software with. They’re extremely expensive though. I quoted some 50/2 breakers for a project last year and they were $400/ea.


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Eaton and Square D have had remote control breakers for over 30 years. Square D uses a drive motor, Eaton uses a solenoid (SOB is what we call them) WalMart originally used the Square D version, but now use the Eaton version. The Orange and Blue boxes use mostly the Square D versions (Powerlink)
 
hillbilly1 said:
Eaton and Square D have had remote control breakers for over 30 years. Square D uses a drive motor, Eaton uses a solenoid (SOB is what we call them) WalMart originally used the Square D version, but now use the Eaton version. The Orange and Blue boxes use mostly the Square D versions (Powerlink)
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The Eaton breaker I'm referencing is the new BR/BAB "Smart Breaker"; its a different product than the wired control panel breakers. The new line has built-in energy monitoring, and is wirelessly operated via Wi-Fi. https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/cata...ection/energy-management-circuit-breaker.html

Square D replaced the NQ Powerlink product w/ the NF Powerlink product, but you can still buy QOPL breakers. I've used them, but I prefer the Eaton RP breakers because the QOPL's have a cycle time limit, and a recharge time limit on their control transformer. If someone inadvertently switched the QO breakers off remotely, and then tried to turn them right back on, it doesn't reliably work.
 
brantmacga said:
The Eaton breaker I'm referencing is the new BR/BAB "Smart Breaker"; its a different product than the wired control panel breakers. The new line has built-in energy monitoring, and is wirelessly operated via Wi-Fi. https://www.eaton.com/us/en-us/cata...ection/energy-management-circuit-breaker.html

Square D replaced the NQ Powerlink product w/ the NF Powerlink product, but you can still buy QOPL breakers. I've used them, but I prefer the Eaton RP breakers because the QOPL's have a cycle time limit, and a recharge time limit on their control transformer. If someone inadvertently switched the QO breakers off remotely, and then tried to turn them right back on, it doesn't reliably work.
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Haven’t seen those yet, big Orange EMS group set theirs to not reset when turned off manually, they didn’t want Homer messing with the panels. They even glued sleeves over the maintenance override switches in the EMS panels. The breaker manual override has a plastic wedge stuck in them to keep them from overriding it there too!
 
I saw one of these things at a supply house. Thing is enormous. Also the notch for the generator cable is too small to fir a 6/4 and the sheetmetal wasn't exactly well aligned. Hopefully SQD does a revision.
 
Todd0x1 said:
I saw one of these things at a supply house. Thing is enormous. Also the notch for the generator cable is too small to fir a 6/4 and the sheetmetal wasn't exactly well aligned. Hopefully SQD does a revision.
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What you saw was the Square D Energy Center; and yes, it is massive. The Pulse Panel has not been released yet. This is V2 of the Energy Center.


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brantmacga said:
What you saw was the Square D Energy Center; and yes, it is massive. The Pulse Panel has not been released yet. This is V2 of the Energy Center.


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Ah ok. I hope they fixed the shortcomings in the energy center
 
part numbers are now populating on the Schneider website now and we can see more info. Here is a link to the Pulse panel discussed earlier:

As I suspected, they are using wireless relays without overcurrent protection built in, and there are two variants: 30A 240v, and 20A 120v dual-load relay.

30A Relay - https://www.se.com/us/en/product/QO200PWX240/wiser-monitor-control-relay-qo-30a-240v/
20A Relay - https://www.se.com/us/en/product/QO200PWX120/wiser-monitor-control-relay-qo-20a-120v/

Interestingly, I've also found this Savant-branded 60A QO relay that is clearly of the same family, but its not listed anywhere in Square D literature that I can find. Savant also markets the 30A and 20A relays under their brand.

shop.suppliedenergy.com

Savant QO Single 60A Relay

Savant's 60A Power Module (2-Pole, 240V AC with Current Transformer - QO™ compatible with plug-on neutral) controls and monitors a single circuit up to 60 amps; ideal for central heating & cooling equipment, sub-panels, EV chargers, and more. KEY FEATURES Works with 3/4 inch Schneider/Electric...
shop.suppliedenergy.com shop.suppliedenergy.com


Reading through the installation manual to the relays, they connect wirelessly to the Wiser/Sense Energy control module. The Wiser/Pulse system is designed to integrate utility and solar with battery storage and EV charging; so these relays would be utilized to shed heavy non-essential loads during times of battery operation. As for lighting and receptacle-connected-appliance control, this system integrates with their connected switches & receptacles.

These relays also have built-in energy monitoring and can be used with the Sense/Wiser monitor & app for circuit-level monitoring and control.
 
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