new to resi work and have some questions.

[resistance]

...just challenging in many ways.

what does this mean.

Do you mow your own lawn? Work on your own vehicles? Why should you be allowed too? You are impacting the bottom line of of viable businesses.

Just reading this tells me a lot!! I guess any soul not seeing the difference would say: Do you conduct your own heart surgery..

 

[quogueelectric]

Right. Any pipe and wire guy can certainly wire a house. It ain't rocket science. The worst thing they tend to do is take 3 times longer than a resi-guy would, but that doesn't matter in this case. He'll probably get gigged on a couple things that are peculiar to resi on his inspection, but that's a small matter too and probably an enjoyable learning experience for him.

Many pipe and wire guys I know can do resi as quickly as any resi guy they are weekend warriors. Someone who is good is good period you cannot generalize that if a guy is commercial he cant do resi. You are so wrong it isnt even funny. Dont fool yourself you would be so wrong and most of them know someone they can ask not to get tripped up on new code or local requirements to keep them out of trouble.

 

[mdshunk]

...you cannot generalize that if a guy is commercial he cant do resi. You are so wrong it isnt even funny.

I never said that he couldn't do resi. Not sure why you think that. Matter of fact, I was trying to say that he should give it a go. The commercial guy that can sling rope with efficiency on the weekends is likely the exceptional guy rather than the typical guy.

 

[Brady Electric]

new to resi work and have some questions

new to resi work and have some questions

This is one of those threads that just keep growing WOW!
I would like to say that I was lucky in 1974 when I started and was able to do service calls, house wiring, and commercial work which made me well rounded.
I would like to say when I do a job that I haven't done in along time I go the the NEC section that pertains to what I am doing and read and update myself on the current codes and it helps allot
Also this might be helpful: I just took an online course on the Code Changes of the 08 code changes 1,2,3. from JADE Learning
JADE has always had some good courses to help you keep up on the current codes
One last thing: I went to a weekend code class for continuing education first started years ago. I ask the inspector that was teaching the class why was this necessary.
He said I show you, when the class started he ask all of us to hold up our code books. Believe it or not there were code books up to nine years old.
I think a good electrician keeps up with the trade and current codes and is proud of his work.
Also to the electrician that first posted this thread we are not trying to put you down but sharing helpful thoughts.
After all we all have been there one time or another
Have a GREAT day and Semper Fi Buddy

 

[CopperTone]

lets assume he is qualified to do the job.

4-5 days to rough a 4000sq ft home ? by yourself or with a non electrician helper? not a shot in hell. especially if you have so many code questions

try probably 2-3 weeks and you'll miss stuff - just because of your lack of experience. And don't expext the inspector to pick up on things you miss on the rough inspection - but they will find it on the final - much harder to fix then.
Everything is fast and easy - if you know how to do it.

 

[brian john]

Just reading this tells me a lot!! I guess any soul not seeing the difference would say: Do you conduct your own heart surgery

HORSE HOCKY..

UMMM one of my employees lost a toe mowing his lawn NOT DANGEROUS? I think not and if you check stats you might find more injuries from lawn mower accidents then electrical. If safety is your concern.

OK working on your car..NO DIFFERENCE probably more dangerous tinkering with the brakes than wiring a house.

We are discussing wiring a house AS STATED DIYers do it all the time (some sloppy as hell and maybe dangerous to boot). I do not know if stats exist on DIY self wiring failures (I doubt it). But if it is permitted inspected and passes!

We are not talking heart surgery we are talking about wiring a house something a 6 month apprentice with 6 months of expierence wiring houses better be able to do or he is in the wrong trade. BASIC WIRING 101.

 

[resistance]

HORSE HOCKY..

UMMM one of my employees lost a toe mowing his lawn NOT DANGEROUS? I think not and if you check stats you might find more injuries from lawn mower accidents then electrical. If safety is your concern.

OK working on your car..NO DIFFERENCE probably more dangerous tinkering with the brakes than wiring a house.

We are discussing wiring a house AS STATED DIYers do it all the time (some sloppy as hell and maybe dangerous to boot). I do not know if stats exist on DIY self wiring failures (I doubt it). But if it is permitted inspected and passes!

We are not talking heart surgery we are talking about wiring a house something a 6 month apprentice with 6 months of expierence wiring houses better be able to do or he is in the wrong trade. BASIC WIRING 101.

You know! :wink:

 

[growler]

i always mention that to anybody i do small side work ( ceiling fans, adding additional ckts for general purpose or for small equipment).

Cisco never really mentioned if he is just helping a friend wire the house or if he is taking on this job as a side work contract.

Taking on a house to wire ( under the table for money ) is actually running an illegal business. Operating without insurance can be dangerous. If he is paid by check and the friend list the payment for electrical work then he may end up being responsible for the job and any faults in the future.

If he is just helping out a friend and the friend is actually the one doing the work then there is no problem.

Friend or not if something goes wrong then people always point fingers . "He did it, I hired him, I though he knew what he was doing , he's the professional and I'm the poor innocent homeowner".

Just something to think about. :grin: Just because you don't need a license doesn't mean there are no responsibility issues.

If a guy cuts his toe off mowing his own yard that's one thing and if he cuts his toe off mowing a neighbors yard for money that's is a whole different matter. It can get complicated.

 

[brian john]

Growler I agree 100% and at no point would I / do I condone anyone breaking the law, and doing side work steps into those bounds. My point was and is an industrial/commercial electrician should be able to step into residential wiring with a slight learning curve. IT IS NOT THAT COMPLICATED

And while I may not know a lot, on this one I feel I am right or the guy is an assembler / installer NOT AN ELECTRICIAN.

 

[growler]

Growler I agree 100% and at no point would I / do I condone anyone breaking the law, and doing side work steps into those bounds. My point was and is an industrial/commercial electrician should be able to step into residential wiring with a slight learning curve. IT IS NOT THAT COMPLICATED

I agree that wiring a house is not that complicated. Keeping things legal is probably the area where most employees would have the biggest problem ( trying to do a side job but acting as an independant contractor ).

They get used to working for a company that is licensed and insured and naturally assume that if you kow how to do something that you are allowed to do that job. Trying to stay straight with all of your responsibilities and liabilities can get complicated. People tend to forget about these right up to the time when something does go wrong.

Example: Cisco has an auto accident backing out from a job where he is not an employee but is actually an independant contractor ( useing vehicle commercially) without commercial insurance. Is he covered?

If it were me I would ask my friend to put me on his company payroll while I was working on this job for him. Let his company insure the job both for liability and workman's comp.

 

[brian john]

That is one of several issues side workers overlook. Which is why I would and did avoid side work. In my end of the business I was always able explain OH I don't do that type of work.

Them "Can you hang a light fixture?"
Me 'What's a light fixture?"

 

[cisco28]

lol 6 pages, someone please lock this thread. thanks for the great info fellas

 

[acrwc10]

I

If it were me I would ask my friend to put me on his company payroll while I was working on this job for him. Let his company insure the job both for liability and workman's comp.

So how many friends do you have left ? :grin:

My first thought when I read the OP was "run it in pipe if thats all you know" the biggest mistakes made going from commercial or industrial to residential is not missing things, houses tend to have a lot more "outlets" then commercial does. And layout, if you have a 4000 sq ft. it may have 75 recess lights in it or it may have one box in the center of each room ??????

 

[quogueelectric]

That is one of several issues side workers overlook. Which is why I would and did avoid side work. In my end of the business I was always able explain OH I don't do that type of work.

Them "Can you hang a light fixture?"
Me 'What's a light fixture?"

A light fixture can be a quick hundred bucks for someone on the way home.

 

[360Youth]

lol 6 pages, someone please lock this thread. thanks for the great info fellas

If a thread actually stuck to the issue at hand, very few would go beyond 3-4pages. Most of them venture off into off-topic but somewhat useful posts. The rest are mere entertainment value.

 

[growler]

So how many friends do you have left ? :grin:

Not that many but I stopped counting the people that were trying to screw me as friends.

His friend just wants some cheap under the table labor. A typical GC. Sure his friend will get the permit but he can still consider Cisco as a contractor ( one check for electrical work is all it takes ).

You may repair a fixture for a friend but wiring a 4000 sq. ft. house is business.

 

[mivey]

I have helped friends before and I have also helped acquaintances. The real question might be: who are your real friends? Most of us call many people friends but if you take a close look, there is a difference between a friend and a real friend. You will never have to worry about helping a real friend.

That may be a little off of the real question so I might ask you a question: Do you feel that the help you will provide is what you would expect of a real friend? If so, go ahead. If you think you might cause your friend trouble because you are unfamiliar with some of the residential code requirements, perhaps you need to assist on a different level.

It sounds like your friend may be asking for your expert input. Don't let him down.

That being said, there are many books and inspection guides (just look on Mike's page) that will help refresh your memory on many of the common installation issues.

 

[tallgirl]

If the friend is a GC and is building the house, everything should fall under the GC's "Builder's Risk" insurance. If the friend weren't a GC, then that would be a (overly beaten) horse of a different color.

I agree with one of the posters about making sure the relationship is properly documented. In particular, a document stating that the GC -- as the GC -- is assuming all risks, hold harmless, etc.

One issue might be the ability to form a valid contract. The "compensation" should be listed as "skills development" or "continuing education".

 

[brian john]

Not that many but I stopped counting the people that were trying to screw me as friends.

Not sure how I rate the posters to this forum, Friends yes but in what way?

There are many I would like to meet face to face. Some of us local posters in and around DC, Baltimore have discussed getting together, it just never came to be, YET.

Did meet a few at a MH seminar and asked a few others to attended a seminar I put on for ARC flash.