New Work Only?

[jmellc]

If I were starting out again and/or starting up a business again, I would try every way possible to do new work only. New structures or whole house rewires, maybe remodels.

Most of us have seen a lot of the junk that's out there and that isn't getting any better. Commercial buildings used to have less of it but I'm seeing slop in some of them too. No one will pay us to fix all the junk, they barely want to pay for what they called us for. As we've discussed on other pages, any of us might get hung any time of a mishap in a building simploy because we were the last ones there or last ones to pull a permit.

I once had a GC insist I should tap into an existing box close to a new room. I refused; told him I always do a new home run if possible, especially when I didn't do original wiring and don't have time to track it all out. I stuck to my guns and he gave in. Sure enough, 6 months later, he called that the same existing circuit had problems & wasn't that covered by warranty? I said "no, I never went into that circuit and this is chargeable". That worked good for me but I think of how often I've had to tap circuits and can't always foresee every load they may handle.

We have enough headaches at best and sure don't need more from all the junk wiring we have to deal with. If you are able to do new work or slash and burns, give it a try and save yourself a lot of grief.

 

[480sparky]

I never let a GC tell me how to do my job. They can tell me where the customer wants switches, outlets, lights etc. But never how to circuit them.

 

[peter d]

:huh:

I've done my fair share of new work and I've worked for two EC's in my career that did 90% new residential. The new work market is cut throat and GC's burn through EC's like toilet paper. It's all about price and speed, nothing else.

I wouldn't touch the new work market with a 100 foot pole unless I had a crew of speed demons that worked for peanuts. That's all but impossible nowadays.

 

[electricman2]

:huh:

I've done my fair share of new work and I've worked for two EC's in my career that did 90% new residential. The new work market is cut throat and GC's burn through EC's like toilet paper. It's all about price and speed, nothing else.

I wouldn't touch the new work market with a 100 foot pole unless I had a crew of speed demons that worked for peanuts. That's all but impossible nowadays.

:thumbsup: I have a EC friend that does new resi. He says it sucks. Always rushed with drywallers breathing down your neck wanting to get started and your not done with rough-in. Not for me.

 

[peter d]

:thumbsup: I have a EC friend that does new resi. He says it sucks. Always rushed with drywallers breathing down your neck wanting to get started and your not done with rough-in. Not for me.

Yeah, I completely forgot to mention that. I lost track of how many houses we did where the GC said "We're insulating on Friday, you guys need to get this roughed in today." "Today" being Wednesday or Thursday.

 

[ritelec]

:huh:

The new work market is cut throat and GC's burn through EC's like toilet paper. It's all about price and speed, nothing else.

You're only as good as your last number.
I've worked for a few builders.... now just in life if I'm talking to someone, they may ask what I do and I tell them, I ask what they do, they say all puffed up " I'm a builder"......... I have to laugh then I don't walk away, I run.

 

[ritelec]

the same existing circuit had problems & wasn't that covered by warranty? I said "no, I never went into that circuit and this is chargeable".

I too would rather do anew. Sometimes I will refuse to have anything to do with an existing circuit, But sometimes it's just not right and working on the older circuit is the way to go.. the thing is, on the invoice "from or on existing circuit" I am not responsible for existing parts of the wiring.
I was actually turning down alot of work being afraid to work on existing circuits, then saw here a few years back about all the work I was throwing away.. so I use better judgement, make sure my insurance is paid, and sometimes loss alittle sleep and pass buildings a few times to see that they are not on fire.........speaking about not on fire............
I'm sure we've all been there..seeing wiring that has been functioning for years thats a mess and considered dangerous... hundreds of old clothe wiring in boxes or not in boxes above enclosed ceiling fixtures with 3 bulb sockets rated 60 watt with 100 watt bulbs in them...... switches with several conductors looped around the device screws for splicing, miss matched wire sizes of 14-12-and lamp cord on 40 amp breakers....
In all reality, there should be thousands upon thousands of fires a day................................... but there's not.... Baffles me....

 

[Coppersmith]

There is nothing wrong with doing new work. It's a clean slate and easy since everything is open. But it's the worst paying work an electrician can get for those same reasons. An EC can scoop up a pile of day laborers and complete the work with little training.

Remodeling work is a much better choice. Usually much of the remodeled space will be opened so the existing wiring can seen and adjusted as need. And it pays much better. Not as much as service work, but much better.

 

[LarryFine]

Back when I was a helper, but had already earned a reputation as a good troubleshooter, I went on a service call for an addition that lost power. To make a long story short, I found that the entire addition (one bedroom, one bath, and a small den) had been wired to the unused terminals of a dead-ended existing living-room receptacle.

It gets better: the original house wiring was aluminum. I found that the incoming wires to the fried receptacle were completely bare - all three conductors, and even no sheath. With permission to open the wall, I found about two feet of shiny clean aluminum wires perfectly parallel, as if someone had disintegrated all of the plastic.

There was no charring or ash. The sheath and wire insulation smoothly ended, like it had been melted. My fix was to dead-end the wires at the previous receptacle, and feed the existing (replacement) receptacle and the addition with a new circuit, which is obviously what should have been done when the addition was built.

Some peoples' children! :roll:

 

[ptonsparky]

Back when I started I did homes for a small builder who worked mostly by himself so the pressure wasn’t great for speed but getting in and out quickly was the only way to make money. I had to add a receptacle in an added wall because it was 2’. My bids were ‘per opening’ plus the service. You would have thought that $13 was taken from his children’s piggy bank. I didn’t miss the work.

 

[jmellc]

:huh:

I've done my fair share of new work and I've worked for two EC's in my career that did 90% new residential. The new work market is cut throat and GC's burn through EC's like toilet paper. It's all about price and speed, nothing else.

I wouldn't touch the new work market with a 100 foot pole unless I had a crew of speed demons that worked for peanuts. That's all but impossible nowadays.

True, you have a good point there too. How about whole house rewires? Do you get many of those? Lots of crawling but still able to gut old wiring and do all new stuff your way.

 

[Coppersmith]

True, you have a good point there too. How about whole house rewires? Do you get many of those? Lots of crawling but still able to gut old wiring and do all new stuff your way.

I've done a few whole house rewires. I charge remodeling rates for doing these, not new construction rates, therefore they are profitable. I try to explain to potential clients that drywall crew hours are far cheaper than electrician hours so therefore it is much cheaper to open up a horizontal channel in most of the walls to run new wiring rather than trying to fish wiring. In fact, this is the only way I will do these jobs now. Spending a week crawling above and below rooms fishing cables is a super pain even when I am just watching my crew do it.

 

[ramsy]

..Spending a week crawling above and below rooms fishing cables is a super pain even when I am just watching my crew do it.

Always wondered why so many crawl spaces & ditches seem to find me. Never thought my competitors were refusing it, bailed out after trying everything else, or cant fit in crawlspaces. Never thought my business niche was other peoples garbage. Don't cut drywall anymore, or do can lights with no attic.

25 years of yoga classes help me balance on beams, while playing twister around Air ducts & obstacles. P100 respirators & Hazmat laundry procedures keep me from getting sick from black molds or asbestos exposure, and frequent wash-my-face & head breaks from heat stroke. Found a cordless that goes thru double headers, but can't avoid corded drills with extension bits for wall blocks.

Since my invoice shows "No cause for insurance to deny claims," its no helpers no worker's-comp. fraud. Tarps are placed under ladder or crawl-space entry, to whisk off dirt & debris, before going back & forth, to fish wire thru walls from both ends. Sometimes clients feel for me, and they are told, "I need to keep active in my old age, and since there's no time for the Gym, its good exercise for me."

 

[cowboyjwc]

:huh:

I've done my fair share of new work and I've worked for two EC's in my career that did 90% new residential. The new work market is cut throat and GC's burn through EC's like toilet paper. It's all about price and speed, nothing else.

I wouldn't touch the new work market with a 100 foot pole unless I had a crew of speed demons that worked for peanuts. That's all but impossible nowadays.

I'm right there with you. Once upon a time there was some money in it, now, I could make a living doing service changes and service calls. I used to make more money, because I would do the jobs that everyone thought were too small for them and can't tell you how much more work those jobs generated.

 

[peter d]

True, you have a good point there too. How about whole house rewires? Do you get many of those? Lots of crawling but still able to gut old wiring and do all new stuff your way.

Most of my experience is with old work and rewiring, though as mentioned I have much experience with new work too. New work is repetitive and monotonous and I get bored of it very quickly. I actually like the challenge that old work and rewiring presents, even though it's incredibly tedious and time consuming the majority of the time.

 

[peter d]

I'm right there with you. Once upon a time there was some money in it, now, I could make a living doing service changes and service calls. I used to make more money, because I would do the jobs that everyone thought were too small for them and can't tell you how much more work those jobs generated.

I agree, I would much rather do service and small jobs than new houses. I can't keep up anyway and I certainly can't wire a new house as fast as I did 20 years ago. Wow, can't believe I'm old enough now to say that.

 

[readydave8]

Back when I started I did homes for a small builder who worked mostly by himself so the pressure wasn’t great for speed but getting in and out quickly was the only way to make money. I had to add a receptacle in an added wall because it was 2’. My bids were ‘per opening’ plus the service. You would have thought that $13 was taken from his children’s piggy bank. I didn’t miss the work.

$9 per drop (opening) when I started

still remember HO trying to decide whether to put 1 or 2 receps in master bath

his wife thought they needed 2

he looked at her and said in panicky voice, "these are costing me $9 APIECE!":huh:

 

[cowboyjwc]

$9 per drop (opening) when I started

still remember HO trying to decide whether to put 1 or 2 receps in master bath

his wife thought they needed 2

he looked at her and said in panicky voice, "these are costing me $9 APIECE!":huh:

I think we were at $25 an opening in the 70-80's

 

[JFletcher]

Most of my experience is with old work and rewiring, though as mentioned I have much experience with new work too. New work is repetitive and monotonous and I get bored of it very quickly. I actually like the challenge that old work and rewiring presents, even though it's incredibly tedious and time consuming the majority of the time.

Amen. If I were doing new installs only, I would only be in commercial. When I started out, I was doing that with voice data and video, I liked it very much.

If I could sustain myself only with troubleshooting work, I would do that. the best part of electrical to me is trying to figure out why something does not work correctly. I also wouldn't mind industrial electrical work, instrumentation, or medium or high voltage work, just to learn something new.

I do not wire new houses except for the occasional custom build. I would rather flip burgers at McDonald's than do new tract home wiring.

 

[Coppersmith]

I would rather flip burgers at McDonald's than do new tract home wiring.

Flipping burgers is very Zen as long as you don't need money.