NFPA ... Smoke/Heat Detectors

[alomega]

Okay, I realize that this is not an NFPA forum but I am hoping the experience will win out. My question is this:

Are Smoke / Heat sensors required in a Religious Facility that is Group A-3 Construction Type III-B with approved sprinkler system and manually initiated alarm system? I have not found a certain yes/no.

Secondly, Where do Duct Smoke detectors have to be located? Are they the only ones required?

 

[cschmid]

you need NFPA 72 it gives you the locations and all requirments..mine is not in front of me or I would answer your question better..I will look on line to see If I can find link..

http://www.nfpa.org/aboutthecodes/list_of_codes_and_standards.asp

this will allow you to look inside of NFPA 72..just follow the instructions..

http://www.nfpa.org/aboutthecodes/AboutTheCodes.asp?DocNum=72

Second link is better..on 2nd link go to bottom of page until you see "view 2007 addition of document" and click on link and agree and enjoy..it is alittle slow at first but you can get used to it..

 

[boater bill]

In my experience go to NFPA 101 and determine the occupancy load.
If it is over 500 then you need the smokes in addition to the sprinkler system. Duct detectors go on the return and supply side of the AHU's of units over 2000 CFM or serving an exit corridor.

hope that helps.

 

[lpelectric]

Okay, I realize that this is not an NFPA forum but I am hoping the experience will win out. My question is this:

Are Smoke / Heat sensors required in a Religious Facility that is Group A-3 Construction Type III-B with approved sprinkler system and manually initiated alarm system? I have not found a certain yes/no.

IMO, it says at: 907.2.1 Group A. A manual fire alarm system and an automatic fire detection system shall be installed in Group A occupancies.

Secondly, Where do Duct Smoke detectors have to be located? Are they the only ones required?

Read sections 909 & 910 of the Building Code. :smile:

 

[spsnyder]

I agree with LP. Check your states code. For example NY has added an "and automatic" after "manual" . In other words, you may not have to have an automatic system, but NY does. There is nothing in 72 that will tell you if it's required. Only what to do if your state requires it.

 

[steve66]

IMO, it says at: 907.2.1 Group A. A manual fire alarm system and an automatic fire detection system shall be installed in Group A occupancies.


Read sections 909 & 910 of the Building Code. :smile:

I agree that it depends on where you live and what codes they have adopted. Where I am at, its the IBC that dictates if a fire alarm system is installed. (At lot of places adopt either NFPA 101, or the IBC).

But in my IBC (2003 and 2006), I don't see anything about an "automatic fire detection system". Are you sure you wern't looking under I-3?

I read it as a manual system is required for more than 300 people. And there is an exception to that for automatically sprinklered buildings where notification appliances are activated for waterflow.

There is also a note that any areas that are occupancy "E" should have fire alarms per that section of the code.

Steve

 

[wbalsam1]

I agree that it depends on where you live and what codes they have adopted. Where I am at, its the IBC that dictates if a fire alarm system is installed. (At lot of places adopt either NFPA 101, or the IBC).

But in my IBC (2003 and 2006), I don't see anything about an "automatic fire detection system". Are you sure you wern't looking under I-3?

I read it as a manual system is required for more than 300 people. And there is an exception to that for automatically sprinklered buildings where notification appliances are activated for waterflow.

There is also a note that any areas that are occupancy "E" should have fire alarms per that section of the code.

Steve

Unfortunately, I only have a NY Building Code and not the IBC. I did look under our previous one (the one that combined language from the 2000 IBC, the 2001 Supplement to the IBC and NY Modifications developed by the Codes Council and its' technical subcommittees [I was a member])and found language under 907.2.1 that supports your take. A manual appears to be all that is required, however don't take my word for it, since I do not have your state's code book. :smile:

 

[robva]

Duct Smoke Detectors

Duct Smoke Detectors

Placement of duct smoke detectors have been a troubling issue for many years now. NFPA and IBC, and previously BOCA, are in conflict on the location. One uses 2000 cfm, one uses 15000 cfm on return etc. Most designers in our area have ended up with a detector at 2000 cfm on either the supply or return air ducts, to satisfy both standards/codes.

The location is further compounded with the UL classification of the location relative to duct widths from inlets, bends etc. Typically, the UL location is not achievable due to the size of the duct and the length of run. Alternatively an air differential test is used to assure the detector and associated sampling tube actually works. Sampling tubes should extend the entire duct width as well.

Then there is the UL listing relative temperature extremes, most detectors are not listed below 32 degrees F, causing roof mounted duct work/detector locations very problematic. If the duct is planned well in design, the detector can be installed within conditioned space. Not caught, while in the field the issue is more problematic. Would love to hear folks methods to dealing with this particular issue, as many we have tried caused other problems. One was building a box around the detector, installing a resistant heating element, yet it caused condensation buildup in the box, resulting in other issues. Another was wrapping the detector with heat trace, yet there is issue concerning the UL listing of the detector with heat applied. Some have tried installing the detector in the AHU, yet did not address the concerns of if the AHU is turned off at night.

Duct detectors are not intended to sound the general fire alarm, their primary purpose is to shut the unit down, (unless you have an engineered smoke control system). Duct detectors report as a trouble signal. And, area detectors within the area the AHU serves is an alternate approach.

And, there is a cross trade issue, the installation of a detectors sampling tube , duct penetration, should be by a mechanic, under the auspices of the HVAC contractor. The detector should be provided under the auspices of the Fire Alarm Contractor/supplier. To connect the detector to a FA system, the detector should be UL listed as compatible with the FA system. Not all FA manufacturers will permit detectors of other manufacturers on their loops. Monitoring modules may be a solution to this issue, similar to the way we connect Sprinkler Flow and Tamper switches to the system.