I need to know please approx. what to charge for a kitchen rennovation which includes the following:After the walls were were ripped down to the studs, I arrrived and did demolition of all existing circuits, etc. Rewired the entire kitchen with new feeders from the panel to power 6 coutertop receptacles, a new refridge, stove, oven, microwave, exhaust hood, dishwasher, garbage disposal unit, two general purpose receptacles, two pendant lights, a chandelleir box, eight recessed lights, L.V. undercab lighting, and all related switch locations. No layout for the lighting and switch locations were provided so I also did the layout as well. Even an approximation would help. Thank you!
NJ-kitchen-estimation details please....
- Thread starter pridelion
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Minuteman
Senior Member
- Location
- The Sooner Nation
We call that T&M here and I can call a minor wiring permit after the fact. I LOVE those and have 3 different smalltime GCs that GIVE me those all the time.
77401
Banned
satcom said:
We don't post estimated value of the job.. we only quote quantities of outlets, motors, appliances, etc.
I have a problem with that "value" of the job as it puts out there in public information data base, what I'm charging. Don't some small towns have contractors part time doing the inspections? Why do I need to let everyone see my bids? Or, what if I put down 1/2 of what it really is? Who's to say?
If you already did the job & now get to price it I'd say to price the scope you quoted @ $10,000.00 If they complain lower it a little.
Consider this a Lotto Scratch off ticket & you just won!
jeff43222
Senior Member
- Location
- Minneapolis, Minnesota
I'd say $2700 seems a little low for all that.
As for the permit fees, policies vary. State electrical permits here don't require the cost of the job, only the number of services, circuits, etc. We then pay $5/circuit, $25/service, etc. Some cities do their own inspections, and they require the estimated cost of the job when applying for the permit.
As for the permit fees, policies vary. State electrical permits here don't require the cost of the job, only the number of services, circuits, etc. We then pay $5/circuit, $25/service, etc. Some cities do their own inspections, and they require the estimated cost of the job when applying for the permit.
Jeff,
Yes that is low for a kitchen that size, but without seeing the job it's just a guess.
"I have a problem with that "value" of the job as it puts out there in public information data base, what I'm charging."
The AHJ also, can ask for the origional signed contract.
Don't some small towns have contractors part time doing the inspections? Why do I need to let everyone see my bids? Or, what if I put down 1/2 of what it really is? Who's to say?
Who's to say, the AHJ remember he was a contractor before he was an inspector, and if he thinks it's too low he will just refer to your origional signed contract.
Yes that is low for a kitchen that size, but without seeing the job it's just a guess.
"I have a problem with that "value" of the job as it puts out there in public information data base, what I'm charging."
The AHJ also, can ask for the origional signed contract.
Don't some small towns have contractors part time doing the inspections? Why do I need to let everyone see my bids? Or, what if I put down 1/2 of what it really is? Who's to say?
Who's to say, the AHJ remember he was a contractor before he was an inspector, and if he thinks it's too low he will just refer to your origional signed contract.
jeff43222
Senior Member
- Location
- Minneapolis, Minnesota
That would be a nifty trick around here, as we aren't required to have signed contracts. In fact, it's been a long time since I signed a contract. The few times I've used them, they were more hassle than anything. I do my estimates in writing so that we're all clear about the scope of the work and the cost, but we don't sign anything. It really hasn't been a problem.satcom said:
Seems to me having contractors doubling as inspectors is asking for trouble. I don't think it's a good idea to allow a contractor to act as inspector for a job done by a competitor.satcom said:
We have a law against inspectors being involved in electrical work. Anyone working as an inspector can't be an EC, work for an EC, own any part of an EC business, work for an electrical supplier, etc.
The "cost" of the job has no bearing on the permit fee (see that other post http://www.mikeholt.com/code_forum/showthread.php?t=79071).77401 said:
See the bottom of item "B" from this actual permit application:
http://www.state.nj.us/njbiz/forms/ucc-f120_12-2005.pdf
I was doing a quickie job for a friend where a permit was needed...it was a "freebie" - how the hell do I know what it costs? The clerk says "...3x the material cost is usual..." So that's what I put down now. No need to "worry" about the competition
jeff43222
Senior Member
- Location
- Minneapolis, Minnesota
celtic said:
I was referring to 77401's comment that sometimes small towns have contractors doing inspections on a part-time basis.
I get the impression that NJ is fairly strict about their electrical laws, among other things (I have two cousins who live in NJ).
Sorry Jeff,
I must be getting sick or something - I read a post but only about 1/2 of it sticks in my head/gets comprehended...for the past 2 days people have been telling me I "look like crap"..LOL..nice, eh? When I start to smell like crap, someone bury me.
Thanks.
I must be getting sick or something - I read a post but only about 1/2 of it sticks in my head/gets comprehended...for the past 2 days people have been telling me I "look like crap"..LOL..nice, eh? When I start to smell like crap, someone bury me.
Thanks.
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
I haven't found that to be correct, at least not up in the Bergen and Passaic County areas. The DCA fees are also affected by the cost of the job. The more $$$ you insert in the "cost of work" area of the permit the more the fees will be. If you don't know the actual cost at the time you fill out the permit, take an educated guess and favor a lower number.celtic said:
Like the others, I wouldn't say what you should charge for the work. Everyone is entitled to get what they believe they are worth and what the market will bear. You'll have to pay for your education on this in some way. The only thing I can say is that whatever time you initially estimated to do work on a kitchen renovation, be prepared to invest more time. There always seems to be new and ongoing reasons for you to make an extra trip out to the job (i.e. the double wall oven is in, the microwave is in, the cabinrets are up, the ceiling is finish painted, etc.) Unless you can figure out a way to make one trip for your rough-in and one trip to do your final work, as far as I'm concerned kitchen reno's are a loss leader.
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
We're starting to crack down on non-licensed work here in NJ. Advertising for and/or doing electrical work without a license is a 4th degree felony and a $1000.00 fine - first offense.jeff43222 said:
JohnE
Senior Member
- Location
- Milford, MA
Here in MA, one is allowed to be both an inspector and EC. I am. It isn't a problem if unless an individual acts inappropriately while serving as inspector. Which I have seen.
I can see why EC's wouldn't want another EC as an inspector, but there are many arguments on the favorable side, too.
Many inspector positions are part time. So, often you get either a retired electrician, on a contractor. Not many others have the flexibility to work 1-3 hours during regular business hours. If you prohibit EC's from being inspectors, you'll limit the pool of available inspectors.
I can see why EC's wouldn't want another EC as an inspector, but there are many arguments on the favorable side, too.
Many inspector positions are part time. So, often you get either a retired electrician, on a contractor. Not many others have the flexibility to work 1-3 hours during regular business hours. If you prohibit EC's from being inspectors, you'll limit the pool of available inspectors.
77401
Banned
4th degree penalty? Sounds impressive. but the $1000 fine does nothing.goldstar said:
I have found that if the person caught has no license to begin with you have no way to enforce it. If he has a license you can take it away. But then what?
MY A/C guy has no license, got caught in a sting, fined, & never paid it & is still working.
goldstar
Senior Member
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Jeff,
I'm only telling you what our contractors' association mentions at each meeting. These violations are enforcable and fines do get imposed. The first one is a $1000.00 slap on the hand. I haven't heard of any issues that go beyond that because they usually pay up but if you scoff at the law I'm sure that there will be jail time. Somewhere along the line all states should crack down on bootlegged work as far as I'm concerned. Otherwise, why bother getting a license ?
Regards,
Phil
I'm only telling you what our contractors' association mentions at each meeting. These violations are enforcable and fines do get imposed. The first one is a $1000.00 slap on the hand. I haven't heard of any issues that go beyond that because they usually pay up but if you scoff at the law I'm sure that there will be jail time. Somewhere along the line all states should crack down on bootlegged work as far as I'm concerned. Otherwise, why bother getting a license ?
Regards,
Phil
- Location
- Massachusetts
j_erickson said:
I believe we also have a law on the books that an inspector can not inspect their own work.
Personally I would rather deal with the part time inspectors that run an EC business as well.
They fully remember the value of time.
Not saying they ignore the rules but usually when they tell me they will see me at 4:15 PM that is when they will be there.
The full time guys are more like the cable company "I'll be there when I get there"
when asked what time to meet them.goldstar said:
"Starting to" ?
NJ has been like a shark on a feeding frenzy :
Check the minutes page from the BoEoEC:
http://www.nj.gov/lps/ca/electric/minutes/elecmin.htm
There is virtually no session that goes by w/o someone being fined.
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