NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

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Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

I went to 358 to see if NM is considered to be tougher than EMT. Of course that's just crazy, but I looked anyway.

Under Uses Not Permitted.

358.12(1). Where during installation or afterward, it will be subject to severe physical damage.

For EMT. That's made out of metal. Almost as tough as plastic.

I have a pretty good idea that I'm gonna get all kinds of:

"Well, you just can't equate severe physical damage between the two. And besides, the sheet rock guys are smart enough that the cable is not subject to severe physical damage after Bevis and Butthead manage to get a piece of drywall on the ceiling so they wont have to be able to see where to not put the NM friendly "Grabbers" that they occasionally hit a framing member with."

I think it funny. There ain't no way you can get me to believe that this concept is consistant with the rest of the wiring method rules.

Hey, watch it with that stuff, it's only EMT, it's not NM you know, sheese. :D
 
Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

What happens when the hanger misses that furring strip ? if it hits a wire so be it.Nothing will save us from him if he is that careless.If we are that worried maybe we better go back to EMT.Even in the days when we stapled to the side of a strip we seldom got hit.Answer is simple.You hit my wire and you pay.We recently had this happen in an office building.The carpenter nailed chair rail on the wall.His staples hit our MC.Had he used liquid nails he been $1000 richer.First he gets our bill to trouble shoot and repair.Then he gets drywall hangers bill to patch,followed by the wall paper guys bill to re do the entire room to match it.And don't forget the painter.Oh and he also foots bill for replacing chair rail.Think before you nail.
 
Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Here in Maine a State Electrical Inspector said they might change this rule for going over the straping and between the joists once they get some evidance of NM getting hit by screws. To date the grand total of incedents reported to the state is zero! Do I think running nm this way is up to code", yes Do I run my NM this way?, NO WAY :eek: To me its a quality thing.
 
Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Originally posted by iwire:
George there is no specified direction.
Well, if it were running perpendicular to the framing members, it'd likely be over them and more than 1.25" away, wouldn't it?

All you have to be is an 1.25 from the edge of the strapping, I do not have to be 1.25" from the inside face of the Sheetrock. :)
How?
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Larry wrote:
Note that furring strips are not in the list of framing members; also note that furring strips and the wiring in discussion here, are run perpendicular to the above-mentioned framing members.
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No, but what we do have is floor members (joists), wall members (studs), and ceiling members (rafters). Looks like the trifecta to me...

Why am I arguing? I don't care! :D
 
Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

By frankft2000:

once they get some evidance of NM getting hit by screws. To date the grand total of incedents reported to the state is zero!
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Well that covers the reported problems.

I don't really care that much about this if it doesn't cause a signifigant number of problems, I've said that.

I just thought I'd throw another log on.

I think that this practice is in obvious contrast with a lot of the requirements we have to comply with that address far less signifigant threats by comparison.

Hey, Jeb, I told ya, I don't want ya playin with those fire crackers in the gas station unless yur on yur break.
 
Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Here is the picture from the handbook with the example of what is allowed should anyone care.
DSC00525.jpg
 
Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Originally posted by georgestolz:
Why am I arguing? I don't care! :D
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Good thing you don't care or else you would have to dine on crow. :D
 
Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

I'm trying to make sense of what kind of space that is.

Is it going to be an unaccessable secret closet that gets covered up and dissapears?
 
Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

That is the ceiling framing. The drywall is fastened to the furring strips.
 
Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

OOOOHHHH. That's up. Well that changes everything. :D
 
Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

How about this for a hypothetical: There is no drywall.

Is it still legal?
 
Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Looks like it would be alot less drilling when running NM perpidicular to the joists,I`ll give it an atta boy :D .I wish they would frame in this manner here,instead of having to drill each individual joist beam.Here we are allowed to drill a hole that is less than 40 % of the total width but has to be within 1/3 of the end of the
joist.,one country wide builder has a 2 story model That has the kitchen and a/c in the back of the building all 2 x 12 framing.2 in holes for 30 feet as you get there.never been tagged for bundling IMO would be ridiculous,through same hole yes but run together is a matter of opinion.The bundling issue IMO has to do with stapling together in 24 in runs.As long as you stay away from these sheet rock nailers by 1.25 ins all id good :D
 
Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Originally posted by georgestolz:
How about this for a hypothetical: There is no drywall.

Is it still legal?
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Id have to say no according to 334.15 "Exposed work". What do you think George?
 
Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

It's just kind of weird that it would say "...for exposed and concealed locations..." It what moment in time is that?

If it's to be exposed for all time, would the furring strips be considered guard strips, as mentioned in 334? I wouldn't think so, but I've been wrong before, in the distant past. :D
 
Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

I knew that's what you wrere thinking and I agree it seems to contradict the requirements in 334 but that's the way these things tend to go. :roll:
 
Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

By George:

It's just kind of weird that it would say "...for exposed and concealed locations..." It what moment in time is that?

If it's to be exposed for all time, would the furring strips be considered guard strips, as mentioned in 334? I wouldn't think so
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I don't see it as a problem that a method used for exposed runs might be a violation for a finished run, or visa versa.

That's not even uncommon.
 
Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

In Broward County and its 54 different ahjs it is common pratice for GCs to nail 1x2 inch furring strips to outside walls on 36 inch centers we in turn attach with tapcons to the block pieces of nm sheathing to act as a holder to keep it against the wall. I question them constantly and the answer I always get is it gives the customer more floor space in the room.
In reply to the doomsdayers that are anti-nm I say if you worry about everything what pray tell do you do with a room that has 3 outside walls and the remaining wall is made from concret. You see in South Florida or as we love to call it ,"HURRICANE ALLEY" thats the way homes,houses and commercial buildings are built. So that being said lets hear where we should run the wiring oh I got it you want us to run it thru the holes in the building blocks that we have to smash into to make boxes fit in the existing wall. Cause they dont make skinny GFCIs Hello!
 
Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Re: NM between joist bottom and sheet rock

Straps, there's some good points you bring up. I'm not trying pick on your post or anything but there's like at least four things I want to say something about.

In Broward County and its 54 different ahjs it is common pratice for GCs to nail 1x2 inch furring strips to outside walls on 36 inch centers we in turn attach with tapcons to the block pieces of nm sheathing to act as a holder to keep it against the wall.

I question them constantly and the answer I always get is it gives the customer more floor space in the room.
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That's a good answer. It's easier to use 14 ga. for 20 amp circuits too.

In reply to the doomsdayers
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I'll assume I'm included. I actually think that NM gets more of bad rap than it deserves. I just like pointing out that this practice looks like it comes from a whole different play book.

In reply to the doomsdayers that are anti-nm I say if you worry about everything what pray tell do you do with a room that has 3 outside walls and the remaining wall is made from concret.
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Any code compliant method is fine with me.

Cause they dont make skinny GFCIs Hello!
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I don't know. It kind of suggests that while everyone knows you'll need more wall space than half a 2x4 the 50 dollars saved on construction is more important. What do you do to get plumbing in there?
 
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