NM cable entering a panel ?

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In the past I would jam as many NM cables into a 2-Screw Romex connector(s) as I could. But an Inspector pointed out that they weren't listed for so many cables. The only reason they aren't by the way, is because they want to sell more 2-Screw connectors. But anyway, now I use a 2" chase nipple with a locknut and a plastic bushing and just stuff my cables through it and into the panel. The cables are supported within 8" of this opening.

Is this a code compliant installation?
 
HaskinsElectric said:
The only reason they aren't by the way, is because they want to sell more 2-Screw connectors.
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Probably, but it does not matter, we are all out to make money.


I use a 2" chase nipple with a locknut and a plastic bushing and just stuff my cables through it and into the panel. The cables are supported within 8" of this opening.

Is this a code compliant installation?
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No, not NEC compliant.
 
HaskinsElectric said:
In the past I would jam as many NM cables into a 2-Screw Romex connector(s) as I could. But an Inspector pointed out that they weren't listed for so many cables. The only reason they aren't by the way, is because they want to sell more 2-Screw connectors. But anyway, now I use a 2" chase nipple with a locknut and a plastic bushing and just stuff my cables through it and into the panel. The cables are supported within 8" of this opening.

Is this a code compliant installation?
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check out 312.5 (C)
 
stickboy1375 said:
check out 312.5 (C)
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"Openings through which conductors enter shall be adequately closed"

That's an interesting code section. Seems highly subjective. Maybe a wad of spackle or Duct Seal would do?

Edit: Whoops, I just quoted 312.5(a) not (c). However, it seems the exceptions to 312.5(c) allow this practice. Whoops, wrong again, the nipple must be at least 18" in length. Yup, my installation is not code compliant.
 
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HaskinsElectric said:
"Openings through which conductors enter shall be adequately closed"

That's an interesting code section. Seems highly subjective. Maybe a wad of spackle or Duct Seal would do?
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That is (A), read (C) 'shall be secured to cabinet', unless you meet all the requirements in the exception.
 
HaskinsElectric said:
"Openings through which conductors enter shall be adequately closed"

That's an interesting code section. Seems highly subjective. Maybe a wad of spackle or Duct Seal would do?

Edit: Whoops, I just quoted 312.5(a) not (c). However, it seems the exceptions to 312.5(c) allow this practice. Whoops, wrong again, the nipple must be at least 18" in length. Yup, my installation is not code compliant.
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You need to meet ALL the requirements... i've never seen a installation in the field meet ALL the requirements... usually the raceway goes through a structural ceiling.

I did some work at a assisted living facility and in every panel they used 3" EMT for the NM homeruns, they didn't even come close to making code. brand new building also...
 
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HaskinsElectric said:
Edit: Whoops, I just quoted 312.5(a) not (c). However, it seems the exceptions to 312.5(c) allow this practice. Whoops, wrong again, the nipple must be at least 18" in length. Yup, my installation is not code compliant.
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Sound like you need more inspections. ;)
 
I, for one, appreciate this thread. I have been guilty of the "bunched entry" into a panel as well. Wonder why we never got called on it?

I looked in NEC 1999 373-5 and there it was. My 1996 is at the office. In the 1978 I have, it mentions the abrasion & closing and 373-5(c) states: "where cable is used, each cable shall be secured to the cabinet or cutout box"
 
iwire said:
So now that you know it's wrong how about figuring a code compliant way to do it?
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Probably because it's an acceptable practice in Arizona and until that changes 220/221 and thousands of other EC's in the state are going to keep doing it that way. :)
 
peter d said:
Probably because it's an acceptable practice in Arizona and until that changes 220/221 and thousands of other EC's in the state are going to keep doing it that way. :)
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The only problem I have is why they find it acceptable?
 
stickboy1375 said:
The only problem I have is why they find it acceptable?
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I think it has to do with the fact that their panels are surface mounted outside, and that is the easiest and fastest way to enter the cables into them.

I was just in the Phoenix area last month and I visited my relatives there, and their panel (and every one in their tract) was a 200 amp one like in 220's picture. I didn't open it but I'm sure the cables came in through a plastic bushing. ;)
 
peter d said:
I think it has to do with the fact that their panels are surface mounted outside, and that is the easiest and fastest way to enter the cables into them.
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I understand why they do it, but did the state get up one day and say "Hey you know what, lets make life easier on the electrician and let him just use giant snap in bushings..." :grin:

I'm just wondering if the inspectors know its a violation or not... If everyone does it, it must be legal mentality.
 
stickboy1375 said:
I'm just wondering if the inspectors know its a violation or not... If everyone does it, it must be legal mentality.
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I think once something becomes such an acceptable way to do something, it would be pretty hard to stop it. I imagine that any inspector in Phoenix that tried to change it would be run out of town. ;)
 
peter d said:
I think once something becomes such an acceptable way to do something, it would be pretty hard to stop it.
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No, actually it does not take long if all the inspectors go along. :smile:

I clearly remember when they stopped allowing any breaker that fits into a panel. Supply houses would have notices up basically saying 'Buy the right breaker'.
 
So now that you know it's wrong how about figuring a code compliant way to do it?
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It is neat, clean, simple and safe. If it aint broke, don't fix it.



each cable shall be secured to the cabinet or cutout box
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In a pinch I suppose I could "secure" them with sealant caulking. It doesn't say anything about a connector.



Maybe I should propose a change to the code? It could be my legacy :)
 
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