nm cable in suspended ceilings

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hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: nm cable in suspended ceilings

We get a few old time Chicago electricians that are doing inspections around here and they tried to prevent us from using NM cable but after a big law suit with one town that held up several house sales because the contractor used NM most of the AHJ's now allow it but they are very strict on it and as far as the state building commissioner say's there is no state code against it as long as it is installed to the Indiana building code. We do how ever have one city in our area that has a fire zone which restricts NM from within two blocks of the center of the city. In this area we have to use EMT or FMC.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: nm cable in suspended ceilings

Originally posted by hurk27:
We get a few old time Chicago electricians that are doing inspections around here and they tried to prevent us from using NM cable but after a big law suit with one town that held up several house sales because the contractor used NM most of the AHJ's now allow it
Click to expand...
Not a well thought out decision on their part.

If they wanted to do this an amendment would have been the way to go.
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: nm cable in suspended ceilings

No it wasn't! As here in Indiana it is required that a local unit has to pass a new code before the state and be accepted before they can even think about adopting it and many get turned down. Our state even removed 90.4 from the IEC and all interpretations has to be done at state level. This is right in Indiana's IC codes of law. But we still have a few inspectors that try to enforce there own.
 
roger

roger

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Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Re: nm cable in suspended ceilings

Jim, note where Wayne said "Chicago" electricians. My understanding is, that in Chicago even residential is conduit.

Roger
 
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jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: nm cable in suspended ceilings

If that was because of local amendment then they could enforce it.But my understanding is local amendments must be in writing and available to electricians.Naples Fl had local amendments .A EC beat us out of a job wiring a duplex in Naples many years ago.He was new and didn't know it required EMT (city limits).As one can imagine his bid was the low ball.The end result was after he wired it in NM he had to rewire in EMT.He lost his butt on it.
 
iwire

iwire

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Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: nm cable in suspended ceilings

Jim there are some areas in/around Chicago that do not use NM at all and very limited use of MC, AC and FMC.

Here is a picture of a residential rough.

EMT_Ruff_007.jpg


Go here for more pictures.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: nm cable in suspended ceilings

Originally posted by jimwalker:
If that was because of local amendment then they could enforce it.But my understanding is local amendments must be in writing and available to electricians.
Click to expand...
That is correct I believe they have the "Chicago Electric Code" and it is available to all.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: nm cable in suspended ceilings

Wayne in regards to the service you have me curious to what you see?

What am I missing I thought it looked pretty good. :confused:
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: nm cable in suspended ceilings

In the service photo's
In photo #005,008 and 006 There is no support within 12" of the cabnets as required in 334.30 which is where 338.10 (B) (4) direct us to.

In photo #009 Look at the neutrals and grounds Are they not terminating under the same screw?
110.3, 110.14 (A),

In photo #007 and the other photo's it looks like there is only one way to exit this vault 110.26 (C) (2)

In photo #002 Disconect for what ever that is, is over 6'7" off the floor 404.8

In photo 004 There is I belive a gas pipe in the panel space (above)110.26 (A) (3)

Want more?
 
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jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: nm cable in suspended ceilings

My biggest concern was the lack of supports.But i was challenged to site code and this looks like it might take some time.Maybe monday.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: nm cable in suspended ceilings

Wayne are we looking at the same job?

What vault? :confused:

Your code references are for NM and SE but it is a pipe job. :confused:

EMT needs support within 3' of a box or if building structure does not allow you can go 5' unbroken.

Bob
 
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jimwalker

Senior Member
Location
TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: nm cable in suspended ceilings

Hurk got most of them. The ones under JOES PHOTO go beyond belief. Plumbing fittings,is that to drain the boxes?,work clearance,wires on roof unprotected.Glad i don't have to fix that mess.
 
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hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: nm cable in suspended ceilings

I-Wire I thought you were looking at the service photo's in the link you posted under the photo of the pipe job. If you click on your link Then click on the center photo labeled Joe's Photo's

As far as the pipe job goes yes there is 3 that I can see and one that might be a building violation.

As was mention
1. Photo's 002, and 013 No support within 3' of the box. 358.30 (A)

2. In photo 001 There is change over fitting from EMT to flex to the outside light that would be covered up by drywall should have been FMC all the way.
300.15 (F)

3. In photo 004 there is an incompleat raceway stubed out of the wall I know this is a long call but 358.30 does say "EMT shall be installed as a complete system as provided in Article 300" Then look at 300.18 (A) Even though we know it will be at the final I have been giged on this one more than once.

4. The building one is the fact that they drilled the TGI's of course this is not a NEC issue but can be a big one if the AHJ calls you on it.
 
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