NM from 37 year storage

[ramsy]

The 90C requirement for NM cable was part of the 84 NEC.

Does that mean new light fixtures are not allowed on old 14-2 cables, before 90C code was adopted?

 

[norcal]

Does that mean new light fixtures are not allowed on old 14-2 cables, before 90C code was adopted?

Most residential lighting fixtures have instructions requiring 90C conductors.

 

[ramsy]

Most residential lighting fixtures have instructions requiring 90C conductors.

Does that mean pigtails are required, and what length pigtails?

is there any procedural code reference, or OEM instruction for this?

 

[480sparky]

Does that mean pigtails are required, and what length pigtails?

is there any procedural code reference, or OEM instruction for this?

It means the conductors in the box supplying the fixture must be rated for 90°C. I has nothing to do with pigtails. If you have 75 or 60° wires in the box, you can't "cheat" and use a 90° pigtail.

Instructions will be a part of the listing.

 

[ramsy]

It means the conductors in the box supplying the fixture must be rated for 90°C. I has nothing to do with pigtails. If you have 75 or 60° wires in the box, you can't "cheat" and use a 90° pigtail.

Instructions will be a part of the listing.

Is this cheating thing exclusively a listing requirement?

Or is there also code cheating reference?

 

[curt swartz]

Is this cheating thing exclusively a listing requirement?

Or is there also code cheating reference?

The heat issue is not the terminations. It's the heat withstanding of everything in the box. Installing 90C pigtails are useless. I take it you have never removed a ceiling fixture and seen the insulation on the branch circuit conductors burnt to a crisp? Most of the time this is due to over lamping but having a higher temperature rated insulation goes a long way to help.

 

[480sparky]

Is this cheating thing exclusively a listing requirement?

Or is there also code cheating reference?

Both. 110.3(B).

.......Most of the time this is due to over lamping but having a higher temperature rated insulation goes a long way to help.

That, and the hacks that pull out all the fiberglass insulation in the fixture when they install it.

 

[ramsy]

..I take it you have never removed a ceiling fixture and seen the insulation on the branch circuit conductors burnt to a crisp? Most of the time this is due to over lamping..

Yes, but didn't notice 90°C requirement for the new light fixture. Usually a ceiling fan or flush mount LED replacement.

 

[ramsy]

Have not noticed the 90° requirement for ceiling fans, or surface-mount LED replacement lights.

New can lights trigger State energy codes requiring high-efficiency. Either CFL socket, or LED cans with those orange 2-pin clips, neither of which exceeds 30Watts each.

 

[ramsy]

Found can light instructions for popular Rat Trap junction boxes
HALO HLB6 Ultrathin direct mount down light

WARNING
• Read and follow these instructions.
• Risk of fire. MINIMUM 90° C SUPPLY CONDUCTORS..

So, these Rat Traps can't be installed in older homes, or anywhere with cable not rated 90C ?

Wonder how many contractors are installing these in old buildings with 60C cables?

 

[480sparky]

........Wonder how many contractors are installing these in old buildings with 60C cables?

More to the point... is there any way to verify if a cable is (or isn't) 90°C rated?

 

[readydave8]

A few years ago I bought a couple thousand feet of white jacket 12/2. Used it up whenever I had wiring to add to pre-color-coded wiring in existing buildings.

In my case it was NM-B, just not yellow jacket

 

[Gary11734]

Do not recall ever seeing any code paragraph on use of old NM.

Got a few rolls of 250 12/2wg still in original boxes. Not stiff, no apparent ageing of insulation or covering

Any reason to not use this NM from 1982 - still had the price tag, $18.95 for 250 ft rolls.

My Helicopter has a shelf life. But, NM cable! Use it!

I have shotgun shells I re loaded in the 90's. Still work!

 

[ramsy]

More to the point... is there any way to verify if a cable is (or isn't) 90°C rated?

Taken from: inspectionnews.net
http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_...ion/27015-transition-type-nm-nm-b-wiring.html

• http://www.inspectionnews.net/home_...and-commercial-inspection/member.php?u=11181&Bill Kriegh said:09-23-2011 04:03 PM
  [h=2]
  
  Re: Transition from Type NM to NM-B wiring[/h]
  An often useful, but not foolproof, way to check is to carry a sample of each type of the wire around with you. The old 60 deg. wire often has thicker insulation on it than the 90 deg variety does. The black ( and if you look closely, the white) of 90 deg. insulation tend to be a bit shiny, the 60 deg. a dull color. Something to compare may help.
  
  But, only way to be sure is find the marking on the jacket. The NEC changed the manufacturing requirements for NM to the 90 deg. insulation ( and designated as NM-B) but didn't prohibit using up old stock (and still doesn't, which is a problem). So, if a contractor had an old roll of NM laying around it could have been used years after the 90 deg. requirement was placed in the code - so no definite cut off date. And, if a jurisdiction delayed implementing the code with the 90 deg. requirement chances are pretty good stocks of the old stuff would have been shipped to that area to get used up.​
  
  
  

 

[ramsy]

Historical internet references indicate 90C Romex cable was developed close to 1984 code cycle. If true, no buildings built before 1984 could have used 90C Romex.

Therefore no rat traps requiring 90C building wire, are allowed on existing Romex cables built before 1984.

 

[hbiss]

An often useful, but not foolproof, way to check is to carry a sample of each type of the wire around with you. The old 60 deg. wire often has thicker insulation on it than the 90 deg variety does. The black ( and if you look closely, the white) of 90 deg. insulation tend to be a bit shiny, the 60 deg. a dull color. Something to compare may help.

​

The 60 deg wire was TW. The 90 deg is THHN. Hence the thinner insulation and the shiny (nylon) outer jacket.

-Hal

 

[junkhound]

To those who say 'scrap it', maybe can direct bury it, paint the parts above ground grey, and call it UF :lol: