NM in Liquidtite

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Re: NM in Liquidtite

Allen you have a point there, and yes Roger and others do use that argument when it fits the purpose .

While bad design, if the NEC only implies but doesn't say the inside of a raceway is wet, damp, or dry and it is dry when you installed it , I guess it is dry ????

This insistence on the written word is going to be the down fall of our trade. In my opinion.

I know the inside of a raceway installed outside will in all likelihood become wet , the NEC does not have to tell me what science already has .
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

Oh I agree it`s just that it is kind of fun to use what others usually have me on the carpet for and see how they react when they stand in the shoes they have preached to (It is not in the NEC that way that is your opinion)With that said lets move on.
Jim have you ever thought of moving to a nice warm place ? I hear that in Florida this time of year the weather is great :D
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

225.4 Conductor Covering.
Where within 3.0 m (10 ft) of any building or structure other than supporting poles or towers, open individual (aerial) overhead conductors shall be insulated or covered. Conductors in cables or raceways, except Type MI cable, shall be of the rubber-covered type or thermoplastic type and, in wet locations, shall comply with 310.8. Conductors for festoon lighting shall be of the rubber-covered or thermoplastic type.

It is clear that even in a raceway weather sealed or not that on the outside subjected to rain it is in a wet location.
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

Originally posted by jwelectric:
225.4 Conductor Covering.
Where within 3.0 m (10 ft) of any building or structure other than supporting poles or towers, open individual (aerial) overhead conductors shall be insulated or covered. Conductors in cables or raceways, except Type MI cable, shall be of the rubber-covered type or thermoplastic type and, in wet locations, shall comply with 310.8. Conductors for festoon lighting shall be of the rubber-covered or thermoplastic type.

It is clear that even in a raceway weather sealed or not that on the outside subjected to rain it is in a wet location.
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Re: NM in Liquidtite

225.4 does say and in wet locations it does not make this area a wet location.It is just saying when in a wet location.
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

If you were able to stand within a piece of pipe outdoors would you get wet or stay dry as long as there were approved fittings and installed so as to drain :D
This whole thing is hair splitting to the utmost.When the NEC says that the area within a piece of pipe that is listed as suitable for a wet location is in a damp or wet location within the conduit, then conductors rated for a wet location will have to be installed.But as already hashed out the NEC doesn`t say this only electricians with opinions say this.
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

Originally posted by Allenwayne
If you were able to stand within a piece of pipe outdoors would you get wet or stay dry as long as there were approved fittings and installed so as to drain
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Weather I was getting wet or not is not the question that I ask the question that I ask is outside a wet location.

Originally posted by Allenwayne
This whole thing is hair splitting to the utmost.When the NEC says that the area within a piece of pipe that is listed as suitable for a wet location is in a damp or wet location within the conduit, then conductors rated for a wet location will have to be installed.But as already hashed out the NEC doesn`t say this only electricians with opinions say this
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This is not splitting anything. The NEC is very clear when it makes the statement that conductors installed in a wet location must be listed.
Where the debate starts is that some are saying that inside the raceway is not wet. The type of raceway has no bearing on the type of conductor that must be installed.

Let?s look at the article and section:
ARTICLE 225 Outside Branch Circuits and Feeders
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Notice that this article is talking about branch circuits located outside.
225.4 Conductor Covering.
Where within 3.0 m (10 ft) of any building or structure other than supporting poles or towers, open individual (aerial) overhead conductors shall be insulated or covered. Conductors in cables or raceways, except Type MI cable, shall be of the rubber-covered type or thermoplastic type and, in wet locations, shall comply with 310.8.
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Here it tells us that if a conductor is part of a cable such as SE, USE or UF or if the conductors are inside a raceway, any approved for outside installations, the conductors must comply with 310.8 for wet location. Nothing in 310.8 mentions NM-B cable. The conductors inside NM cable are not marked therefore they cannot be found in 310.8(C).

Add together the requirements of 225, 310 and 334 and you will see why NM cable cannot be installed in LFNC or any other raceway on the outside. The condition of moisture in the raceway plays no part in the rule.
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

" the question that I ask is outside a wet location."

No. The raceway could be under an awning , Not wet at all.

Lots of damp locations outside.
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

Originally posted by marc deschenes:
" the question that I ask is outside a wet location."

No. The raceway could be under an awning , Not wet at all.

Lots of damp locations outside.
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Originally posted by dnbob
We are wiring a type V commercial building. Does anyone think it is a problem to sleeve the a/c 240 v. ckt (NM Cable) through 2' of L.T. before the a/c disconnect? 334.15B seems to say it is o.k.?

Thanks,
Bob
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Where are you getting that the AC unit is under an awning?
:)

edited for spelling

[ October 29, 2005, 09:48 AM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

So are you saying the inside of the conduit is WET ? or perhaps DAMP ? they are not the same.Outdoor panels are in damp locations often,but they are not WET inside
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

If the raceway is in a wet location outside the conductors have to be rated for wet locations.

I thougt it had been argued that the raceway just being outside and arranged to drain meant that the conductors had to be rated for a wet location.
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

Originally posted by jimwalker:
So are you saying the inside of the conduit is WET ? or perhaps DAMP ? they are not the same.Outdoor panels are in damp locations often,but they are not WET inside
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No I am not saying that it is wet or dry.

What I am saying is that 225.4 says that conductors installed in a raceway that is installed outside are required to be listed for a wet location no matter weather the inside of the raceway is dry or not.
:)
 
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