NM in Liquidtite

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Re: NM in Liquidtite

it says "and, when in wet..." not what you think. When in wet, not that the stated condition is wet. I can see that you are having problems because you cannot logically follow what a sentence means. My condolences.

It still does not require wires to be wet where raceways are wet, only where the wires are wet. A degree in English comes in handy sometimes, not often, but once in a while.

if you doubt that the sentence means what i say, take the paragraph back to your last English teacher and ask. or go to the nearest jr. college English department and ask one of the teachers.

paul

paul
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

Originally posted by apauling:
it says "and, when in wet..." not what you think. When in wet, not that the stated condition is wet. I can see that you are having problems because you cannot logically follow what a sentence means. My condolences.

It still does not require wires to be wet where raceways are wet, only where the wires are wet. A degree in English comes in handy sometimes, not often, but once in a while.

if you doubt that the sentence means what i say, take the paragraph back to your last English teacher and ask. or go to the nearest jr. college English department and ask one of the teachers.

paul

paul
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how about you doing this for us and come back and tell us what they say

[ October 31, 2005, 05:30 AM: Message edited by: jwelectric ]
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

Originally posted by apauling:
it says "and, when in wet..." not what you think. When in wet, not that the stated condition is wet. I can see that you are having problems because you cannot logically follow what a sentence means. My condolences.

It still does not require wires to be wet where raceways are wet, only where the wires are wet. A degree in English comes in handy sometimes, not often, but once in a while.

if you doubt that the sentence means what i say, take the paragraph back to your last English teacher and ask. or go to the nearest jr. college English department and ask one of the teachers.

paul

paul
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Wow, someone got schooled and didn't like it. :eek:
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

Originally posted by apauling:
it says "and, when in wet..." not what you think. When in wet, not that the stated condition is wet.
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It says "in wet locations", not in wet conduit. The raceway doesn't define the location, where the raceway is installed does.
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

From the English department: The sentence's subject is "conductors", not the nouns in the qualifying phrase "in cables...". That means that further on in the sentence when it says when wet, it is talking about the "conductors", not the nouns in the qualifying phrase. The conductors only need to satisfy 310.8 when the conductors are wet. The sentence says nothing about the raceways being wet. Gee, freshman high school English.

As a group, electricians are pretty smart, and that means that they could skate by often. This is the downside of skating by, not paying attention now means that a simple sentence means the opposite of what it says to you.

I am not bitter about the teaching gigs, I chose to go another way. At least I can understand what a sentence means.

paul :cool:
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

Originally posted by apauling:
The conductors only need to satisfy 310.8 when the conductors are wet.
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No, not when the conductors are wet; when the conductors are "in a wet location".

You're in a wet location even if you're under an umbrella.
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

the "wet" is not a a dithering phrase as in "i think you are all wet", but "wet" by code determination, description,article, etc. If it had meant what you wanted it to mean, then we could all argue about it forever, as you might be all wet wherever you are, but even though I am outside, I am not wet when in a car or in an enclosure, under an umbrella.

So be all wet as much as you want.

paul :roll:
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

Ok Paul one more try:

I'll post the whole thing and separate it at the punctuation points.

225.4 Conductor Covering.
Where within 3.0 m (10 ft) of any building or structure other than supporting poles or towers, open individual (aerial) overhead conductors shall be insulated or covered. -Stop-

This second sentance is talking about "Conductors in cables or raceways" Not single conductors
Conductors in cables or raceways , except Type MI cable, shall be of the rubber-covered type or thermoplastic type( requirment one) and, -Pause- in wet locations, shall comply with 310.8.( requirment 2) Conductors for festoon lighting shall be of the rubber-covered or thermoplastic type.
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Re: NM in Liquidtite

"You're in a wet location even if you're under an umbrella. "

WRONG,if your under it WHY? To keep dry.With your logic i guess my house is wet cause the roof is getting wet :roll:
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

peter d: there are many on this thread that are very articulate, and you are still wriggling for rightness by personal attack. The comment was only made for those who still thinks it says the wires are wet when the raceways are wet. The inside of the cable or raceway must be a "wet" location by definition, not the same as the exterior of an assembly being in a wet location. Your logic implies that the inside of a car is a wet location. My whole house is in a wet location. The inside of my car and the inside of my house are not wet locations. If the logic that you are implying holds true, everything is in a wet location, even in Death Valley or the Gobi desert. Thus, following that logic means that the statement is false as it contradicts other code references to non-wet conditions.

The use of "in" a wet location is being misused as well as the other language problems. This makes Bill C's "It depends on what the meaning of "is" is" downright straight forward and simple. If the inside of a raceway meant to keep things not wet is in a wet condition because the raceway is in a wet condition, then the phrase is rendered useless by the equivocation.

paul :) :)
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

Originally posted by apauling:
[QB] peter d: there are many on this thread that are very articulate, and you are still wriggling for rightness by personal attack.
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Yup, whatever you say. :D Right on....you got it. :cool:
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

Being under an umbrella while in the rain, does not take one out of the rain, it will help reduce ones chance of being drenched while trying to get somewhere in the rain.


The same can be said of a raceway - it is like the umbrella.

A raceway located in a wet location helps to protect the conductors from physical damage (sorry I brought up "physical damage"). It is still in a wet location, and so are the conductors inside of the raceway. Basically there are no raceway systems that we use in this industry on a regular basis that can keep the conductors completely dry. Water is a pretty amazing element, a small amount can cause some damage, a large amount can be devastating.
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

I am no English teacher that is for sure, but I understand it to mean if the raceway is in a wet location the conductors must be rated for a wet location regardless of the condition in the pipe.

Much like the measured zone for luminaries in a bath room , there is no contemplation left . If a fixture is in that zone the reality of condition does not matter ,the luminaire will have a rating for a damp location.

Likewise, If the cable or raceway is in a wet location the NEC wants conductors suitable for a wet location .
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

Originally posted by apauling:
my house is in a wet location
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With that in mind do the conductors within the structure have to be wired in NM /UF ???

DRY,DRY,DRY I live in Florida and it doesn`t get wired in uf.The only required UF is in the slab.Same as outside dry location wire till it goes below grade.
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

Originally posted by apauling:
my house is in a wet location
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So ....? you live in a raceway in a wet location? What point are you making with that statement ? Are you saying the interior of your house and the interior of a raceway are the same?

225.4 says what it says .
I remember being taught that you can read it this way. Conductors in cables or raceways , (now eliminate all the words between the commas up to the conjunction "and" then start reading again) in wet locations shall comply with 310.8 .....

I think it is the cable or raceway location that dictates the conductor rating.
My grammar skills being what they are , I'm sure someone will correct my mistakes in sentence structure.
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

This is so simple that I let my 10 year old grandson play with the section. Today he returns from school with this not from his teacher.

Mike
As the sentence starts out speaking of conductors that are in a cable or raceway the cable or raceway is the subject matter of the sentence. The type MI cable is exempted from the sentence as the sentence continues on with the types of conductors that shall be used in these cables or raceways. The end of the sentence speaks of the subject of the sentence being in a wet location.

Mrs. I will leave her name out of this.

Now if the subject of the sentence is the cable or raceway then the cable or raceway that is in the wet location will mandate that the conductors that are on the inside must comply with 320.8

Now if this is not enough to convince you that NM cable can not be installed between the disconnect and the AC unit I have another stopper (red tag)

312.5(C) Cables. Where cable is used, each cable shall be secured to the cabinet, cutout box, or meter socket enclosure.
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For the sake of argument please explain how you intend to secure the cable to the cabinet if it is in a raceway?


:)
 
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