NM in Liquidtite

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: NM in Liquidtite

I do not believe you. If this was a teacher, no wonder you can't make sense of the language. Sorry for your child's future problems with the language. The conductors are the subject, not the cable. Go to an English department, not the department store of education.

paul :roll:
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

JW,
According to your last post, I can assume that the?installation of any cable in a raceway is in violation of 312.5(C) because a cable connector can't be used to secure the cable?

We would also be unable to support the cable within 12 inches of the box as required by the approiate cable article?

shortcircuit2
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

Since it seemed fit to delete my response to "know it all Paul" could we shut him up now. The whining is very annoying. :cool:

[ November 01, 2005, 06:24 AM: Message edited by: electricmanscott ]
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

You are correct. There is an exception to the rule that is very strict.
Note that this is only speaking of a cabinet and not device boxes.
This rule will be enough to stop the NM cable in the disconnect without Paul?s misunderstanding of English.
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

This is getting to the point of s 49/50 page post reahasing over and over,what has been ran through thr wringer tme and time again.
We all agree to disagree as well as,disagree to agree what we discuss.Let`s just say we all have our opinions in regardes to this subject.Some agree some disagree ,We do have to point out that all sides of the fence have valid points.
So who is correct?? the agreeabla as well as the unagreeables,each make a valid point but what it comed down to is what is actuslly written in the NEC and at it`s best it is vauge.
So I guess in essence we are all correct and wrong,boy isn`t that an oxymoron best and wrong st the same time.Good ole NEC ;)
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

JW,
I know this is off the post subject...but concerning device boxes...wouldn't a cable have to also be secured to a box with a cable clamp much like a cabinet is required to have according to the last sentence of 314.17(B) and 314.17(C) besides the exception to (C)?

On the post subject...IMO the inside of a raceway outside is a wet location...

shortcircuit2
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

I have been attending an IAEI meeting for the last couple of days and I ask some of the people while I was there about the NM cable in a raceway. 100% of the response was that it was not allowed so I put up the defense of the inside of the raceway being dry.
Mark Ode ask me to look up 312.5(C) and this section puts to rest the NM cable from the disconnect (cabinet) to the AC unit.

312.5 Cabinets, Cutout Boxes, and Meter Socket Enclosures.
Conductors entering enclosures within the scope of this article shall be protected from abrasion and shall comply with 312.5(A) through (C).
(A) Openings to Be Closed. Openings through which conductors enter shall be adequately closed.
(B) Metal Cabinets, Cutout Boxes, and Meter Socket Enclosures. Where metal enclosures within the scope of this article are installed with messenger supported wiring, open wiring on insulators, or concealed knob-and-tube wiring, conductors shall enter through insulating bushings or, in dry locations, through flexible tubing extending from the last insulating support and firmly secured to the enclosure.
(C) Cables. Where cable is used, each cable shall be secured to the cabinet, cutout box, or meter socket enclosure.
Exception: Cables with entirely nonmetallic sheaths shall be permitted to enter the top of a surface-mounted enclosure through one or more nonflexible raceways not less than 450 mm (18 in.) and not more than 3.0 m (10 ft) in length, provided all of the following conditions are met:
(a) Each cable is fastened within 300 mm (12 in.), measured along the sheath, of the outer end of the raceway.
Click to expand...
The only way that a NM cable can enter the disconnect is to come in the top of a surface mount, the raceway must be more than 18 inches and less than 10 foot long and the NM cable must be secured with in 12 inches after it leaves the raceway.
I just don?t know how this can be done at the air conditioner, do you?

Now here is code that has nothing to do with weather or not the conductors are in a wet location. This addresses the disconnect and the NM cable in a raceway.
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

the argument is no longer about NM, but THHN vs THHW. It's easy to be misleading JW when you can't read clearly. Asking the question about NM is misleading.

pAUL :p
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

Originally posted by apauling:
the argument is no longer about NM, but THHN vs THHW. It's easy to be misleading JW when you can't read clearly. Asking the question about NM is misleading.

pAUL :p
Click to expand...
Paul, when did the topic change?

Roger
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

I didn't change the topic, stripped nm is thhn, and that was the original argument, about using nm without the outer sheath not being allowed because lt is wet (or not) condition. no change in topic. it's a flimsy bandwagon to jump on roger. why don't you save it for one of my actual errors. They happen enough.

paul :cool:
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

Touchy aren't we Paul. Where do you find the information that backs up the claim that conductors in NM are THHN/THWN?

It may very well be true, but we can't use them as single conductors since they are not marked as to the type of insulation or overall information required by 310.11.

BTW, I simply asked a question.

Roger

[ November 01, 2005, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

Well son you sure have erred on this one.

The conductors in NM cable are only required to be rated at 90 degrees. No where will you find where the conductors are listed as THHN.

334.112 Insulation.
The insulated power conductors shall be one of the types listed in Table 310.13 that are suitable for branch circuit wiring or one that is identified for use in these cables. Conductor insulation shall be rated at 90?C (194?F).
Click to expand...
Where do you get your information that these conductors are THHN. Check out this site

As to the installation of THHN conductors in a raceway that is located outside would be a code violation!

NM cable is a listed cable assembly. Stripping off the outer sheath violates this listing and renders the conductor inside useless.

Also check this out to see what South Wire does for the conductors it uses in NM cable. They do not use THHN.
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

If they aren't thhn, then i will cede the point. Without doing the search, it has come up on this site several times, and it was settled, I thought, that the wires in NM were thhn, whether stamped or not. This has been discusted ( :)
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

Originally posted by apauling:
If they aren't thhn, then i will cede the point. Without doing the search, it has come up on this site several times, and it was settled, I thought, that the wires in NM were thhn, whether stamped or not. This has been discusted ( :)
Click to expand...
Now we can hug and be friends?

:)
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

Wow!. Can somebody give me some advice? I read all these posts in search of an answer..I'm still not sure I completely understand...Can a contractor run a 10/3 romex from the panel ,thru the outside wall of a house,up the outside in pvc(10ft) then thru the attic (no pvc)then down the other side of the house in pvc then to the inside all with the same piece of romex? Is the outside vertical runs ok for RX? Maybe I should bid it with 10/3 UF?
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

This is why we install ventilators in the foundation. These vents allow air to flow in order to keep the humidity down.
Click to expand...
:D :D Gee, where I live we have air flow on the outside too. It doesn't always keep our humidity down. :D :D
 
Re: NM in Liquidtite

Originally posted by Oakey:
Can a contractor run a 10/3 romex from the panel ,thru the outside wall of a house,up the outside in pvc(10ft) then thru the attic (no pvc)then down the other side of the house in pvc then to the inside all with the same piece of romex? Is the outside vertical runs ok for RX? Maybe I should bid it with 10/3 UF?
Click to expand...
The short answer is that location refers to where the run is, and not the indside of the conduit.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top