NM on Block wall

[bjp_ne_elec]

I'm just going to throw this out there - but what about enduced EMF - especially if at some point the metal box (if attached to the EMT) didn't get bonded. Does anyone think that could be a potential issue with using metal pipe (EMT for this discussion)? You know how it now requires bonding to a metal conduit, even when running your EGC through it - so I just wanted this out there for some comments.

I have used EMT for pushing down Romex through in basements, but have always bonded to the metal box that I install for the receptacles. Have never used it as a "sleeve". A sleeve generally implies it's probably not bonded to.

 

[dnem]

post #1
In the past when wiring in a residential garage with a block wall up to about 9 ft I will sleeve the romex in pvc conduit just till it reaches the rafters.

How do you usually do this......strap nm to block wall or sleeve in pvc.

Some will say that you can run nm in pvc. Ive never had a problem with inspectors....probally because its inside the building.

Just currious what others do.

post #46
But that specifed Crawl Spaces and Unfinished Basements. Finished Basements? I saw that too and thought I was in the clear at first. Anywho, my AHJ says not approved in 08 code. I just finshed a remodel and he said "Don't know why and I think it's stupid but...in my last class, they made a point of it.".

If I'm reading this correctly this is a perfect example of an inspector [or if this was a point in a classroom, then an instructor and group of inspectors] that have lost all concept of common sense.

The point in 334.15(C) is that NM is perfectly happy unstapled inside of a conduit. . Now if someone is saying that the Romex becomes unhappy or unsafe if it's installed this way in somewhere other than a basement, that's just a refusal to use common sense.

Researching what the code actually says is step one.
If unclear, then research for an interpretation is step two.
Application of common sense to the specific situation of the installation is step three.

This is like seeing an installation that follows 410.62(C)(2) down to the smallest detail but then saying that it can't be approved because it's not allowed by 400.8(2)+(5). . Where's the common sense ?

 

[petersonra]

I just use tyraps with holes in them and use tapcons to fasten to the concrete... quick and easy.

very clever of you. i like the simple and inexpensive solutions.

if you are going to the trouble to run emt or pvc any signifigant distance, it might well be cost effective to run a couple of THHN conductors inside of it and forget about the romex. at least to the first box.

 

[76nemo]

Fill me in then, because if you slap some sheetrock up I dont see how its different.

That didn't come out as I intended it to, sorry. My point was how many "unfinished" basements do you see get "finished"? I see what you meant on the intent of "unfinished". I guess that would be a very broad definition. I would say any panel work I have seen in a basement has been 92-95% unfinished, and had been unfinished for 50-60+ years. They must REALLY be procastinators

 

[blue spark]

The point in 334.15(C) is that NM is perfectly happy unstapled inside of a conduit. . Now if someone is saying that the Romex becomes unhappy or unsafe if it's installed this way in somewhere other than a basement, that's just a refusal to use common sense.

I couldn't agree more. Just waiting for my 08 book to arrive. Then we'll see what's what.

 

[dnem]

That didn't come out as I intended it to, sorry. My point was how many "unfinished" basements do you see get "finished"? I see what you meant on the intent of "unfinished". I guess that would be a very broad definition. I would say any panel work I have seen in a basement has been 92-95% unfinished, and had been unfinished for 50-60+ years. They must REALLY be procastinators

how many "unfinished" basements do you see get "finished"?

How would you define finished ?
Does it have to have wall covering, ceiling covering, and floor covering ? . Or just 2 of the 3 ? . And if so, is it any 2 of the 3 ?

How about 1 of the 3 ? . Any one or a certain 1 ?

 

[76nemo]

My simplest reply would be,..... no exposed NM

 

[blue spark]

Not to beat a dead horse but....

Not to beat a dead horse but....

My big black book finally arrived and I see nowhere where it is prohibited to sleeve NM in EMT as long as 300.4 and 334.15 are followed. I guess that's that.

Uhm...right?

 

[dnem]

My simplest reply would be,..... no exposed NM

Are you saying that in your mind if there's no exposed NM in a basement without a wall covering, ceiling covering, or floor covering, then it's still considered "finished" and no GFCIs are required ?

 

[76nemo]

Are you saying that in your mind if there's no exposed NM in a basement without a wall covering, ceiling covering, or floor covering, then it's still considered "finished" and no GFCIs are required ?

Is a basement without sheetrock or covering a "finished" basement in your eyes?

I've seen a couple of finished basements, but for the most part, an intended finished basement up here rarely gets finished.

PIPE IT!!!!!!!!

 

[dnem]

Is a basement without sheetrock or covering a "finished" basement in your eyes?

I've seen a couple of finished basements, but for the most part, an intended finished basement up here rarely gets finished.

PIPE IT!!!!!!!!

"Pipe it" is a good suggestion but when is NM required to be protected from physical damage, 334.15(B) ? . That could take a whole thread of debate. . And when is a basement classified as unfinished and so required to have GFCIs ? . "not intended as habitable rooms", 210.8(A)(5).

To determine the finish or unfinish of the basement, I would suggest that the walls would need to be covered with drywall, plywood, or some other kind of barrier sheeting. . And the flooring would have to be finished with carpet, tile, or a recognized finish material. . I don't see that the ceiling would matter.

When the cost of finishing the walls and floors is included, there are steps taken to keep the basement dry. . I would think that a room that is "intended as habitable" be intended to be dry.