NM round cut in box

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Re: NM round cut in box

Originally posted by pierre:
If you look at the installation instructions, you will see that they recommend that you install these in "substrate" equal to the strength of 3/8 plywood, as they were tested that way by UL.
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I thought you were talking about the Carlons! :)
 
Re: NM round cut in box

So I guess in summary what should I say? Use the reikers? I am now confused. I know I should not provide solutions but I have used these cut ins myself for light fixtures "What to do"? "I am gettin soft now as an Inspector".
 
Re: NM round cut in box

Originally posted by triphase:
[QB] So I guess in summary what should I say? Use the reikers?
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Yes, to properly support a fixture you in an old work situation you would have to mount the fixture box directly to a framing member if possible or use the fan-box setup that you suggest.
 
Re: NM round cut in box

Originally posted by pierre:
If you look at the installation instructions, you will see that they recommend that you install these in "substrate" equal to the strength of 3/8 plywood, as they were tested that way by UL.
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It doesn't recommend it, it says that the substrate must be equal to 3/8" plywood.

[Source]

So does 5/8" sheetrock equal that of 3/8" plywood?
 
Re: NM round cut in box

Well, it's rated for 15 lbs in 3/8" plywood.

Does that mean it's not allowed to support 2 lbs of fixture in 5/8" drywall? :D :D
 
Re: NM round cut in box

Originally posted by georgestolz:
Well, it's rated for 15 lbs in 3/8" plywood.

Does that mean it's not allowed to support 2 lbs of fixture in 5/8" drywall?
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Don't know, but it's still holding up my ceiling fan without any problems. :D
 
Re: NM round cut in box

I think it is a good marketing method to stall for the fact that it is probably not listed to be installed in a sheetrock ceiling for the support of lighting fixtures.

Using a cutin box that can be screwed into the framing members seems the way to go. It may seem like overkill, but I do not see another way.
 
Re: NM round cut in box

Originally posted by triphase:
I have an Inspection coming up on a large residential Basement remodel. The Electrical contractor called about using "Carlon" round cut in boxes to support Pendant fixtures. They weigh 6 lbs. each. I did check Carlons site Note: Not for fixture support?
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I couldn't find any notes where it wasn't for fixture support on the Carlon website. Could you please include a link?

Thanks.


Edit: It took a little more digging, but I found it in the pdf faq. :cool:

[ January 30, 2006, 12:29 AM: Message edited by: throttlebody ]
 
Re: NM round cut in box

Originally posted by paul:Don't know, but it's still holding up my ceiling fan without any problems. :D
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Call me cautious, but I dont think I would want to hang a ceiling fan to a cut-in box in a drywall ceiling. :eek:
 
Re: NM round cut in box

Originally posted by paul:
Originally posted by georgestolz:
Well, it's rated for 15 lbs in 3/8" plywood.

Does that mean it's not allowed to support 2 lbs of fixture in 5/8" drywall?
Click to expand...
Don't know, but it's still holding up my ceiling fan without any problems. :D
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I hope you don't sleep under it.
 
Re: NM round cut in box

Some interesting ti-bits I found on carlon's web site under FAQ's
We use the B618R-UPC which is allowed to support a wall mounted fixture up to 6#
And can be read "HERE" It's in PDF format, It has allot of answers to many questions I see here in the forum

What is the weight limit for your old work round box #B618R if you are
hanging a light fixture from the ceiling.

The B618R is a round old work outlet box and is not listed for fixture support in
the ceiling. Only approved ceiling boxes are allowed to support fixtures in the These boxes will be permitted to support a minimum weight of 50
pounds. The B618R can be used in the ceiling as a junction box. Do not hang a
fixture from it since it relies on the strength of the ceiling itself.
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I would like to know if it is acceptable to use the B618R box for mounting
smoke detectors in the ceiling. I read that this box is not for fixture
support.

It is acceptable. Smoke detectors are not fixtures. Please refer to Section . Article 100 defines a luminaire as a complete
lighting unit. In addition, 314.27(A) Exception permits this box to be used in the
wall to support a luminaire of 6 pounds or less.
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Re: NM round cut in box

Originally posted by hurk27:
Some interesting ti-bits I found on carlon's web site under FAQ's
We use the B618R-UPC which is allowed to support a wall mounted fixture up to 6#
And can be read "HERE" It's in PDF format, It has allot of answers to many questions I see here in the forum
Click to expand...
The B618R is discontinued and the B618R-UPC takes its place. Probably due to so many people misusing it or not knowing it isn't suitable for hanging fixtures.
 
Re: NM round cut in box

I spoke to a local supply house today in regards to the round cutin boxes. They said they were not aware that the round cutin boxes were not listed as suitable for fixture support. He contacted the manufacturer rep and got an answer that did not make him happy. Now he knows and is leary on telling his customers (electricians) that they will have to use a different box.

He asked me if he could tell the guys it was my idea :confused: ... it is not my idea, it is a listing.
 
Re: NM round cut in box

I read this interesting FAQ in the above link:

Why are ceiling boxes made from a different plastic compound than the
wall boxes?

The ceiling boxes must pass a UL test where a 200-pound weight is supported
for 5 minutes at 105?C. A PVC box will not pass this test.
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So no PVC wall type box's (I.E. single gain, two-gain ETC...) can be used to mount fixtures to the ceiling
 
Re: NM round cut in box

Originally posted by hurk27:


As long as they weigh Less then 6# and are in the wall not in the ceiling :D :D :D
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True. The exception in 314-27(A) permits it. Only if the box is listed inappropriate by Carlon for fixture support in the wall would it be not acceptable. It then becomes a mfr issue.

The very last question in the PDF takes care of that issue by Carlon addressing the exception in the above stated article. The box may not be used to support fixtures in the ceiling, but they apparently find it suitable for wall use at the 6# limit. :cool:


Dang typos. :mad:

[ January 30, 2006, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: throttlebody ]
 
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