no 14/2?

[difowler44]

Can 14/2 romex be used on residential house with 15amp breakers according to the 2023 NEC? An inspector told me 20amp was the minimum breaker size now for residential. I am in Texas. Code reference please.

 

[hillbilly1]

It would be a local code, I know of a county south of Atlanta that is that way. There are certain circuits that require #12, but the rest can be 15 amp and #14.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Unless you have a local amendment the NEC says no such thing

This is from the 2023, in fact the 2023 allows a 10 amp circuit

(B) 15- and 20-Ampere Branch Circuits.

A 15- or 20-ampere branch circuit shall be permitted to supply lighting outlets, lighting units, or other utilization equipment, or any combination of them, and shall comply with 210.23(B)(1) and (B)(2).
Exception:
The small-appliance branch circuits, laundry branch circuits, and bathroom branch circuits required in a dwelling unit(s) by 210.11(C)(1), (C)(2), and (C)(3) shall supply only the receptacle outlets specified in that section.

(A) 10-Ampere Branch Circuits.

A 10-ampere branch circuit shall comply with the requirements of 210.23(A)(1) and (A)(2).
(1) Loads Permitted for 10-Ampere Branch Circuits.

A 10-ampere branch circuit shall be permitted to supply one or more of the following:

• (1)
  Lighting outlets
• (2)
  Dwelling unit exhaust fans on bathroom or laundry room lighting circuits
• (3)
  A gas fireplace unit supplied by an individual branch circuit

 

[difowler44]

It would be a local code, I know of a county south of Atlanta that is that way. There are certain circuits that require #12, but the rest can be 15 amp and #14.

I'm guessing its not a local code. It was a 3rd party inspector. They wouldn't be able to add to the code book.

 

[hillbilly1]

I'm guessing its not a local code. It was a 3rd party inspector. They wouldn't be able to add to the code book.

Ask him for the code section nicely, saying you would like to learn it. He/she will probably him haw around saying they don’t have it off the top of their head…….The locality can still have amendments they have to enforce, if that’s it, they should be able to give you the amendment section they are enforcing.

 

[hmspe]

Many jurisdictions in Texas have local amendments. When my house was built the general requirement was #12 and 20A minimum. There was an allowance to use #14 for switch legs only on a general lighting circuit. The breaker had to be 15A and the rest of the circuit had to be #12.

You should check the jurisdiction's web site or contact their building department. This will be a code amendment, not part of the published NEC.

 

[infinity]

I am in Texas.

When you have a minute please add your location to your profile. Thanks.

 

[tom baker]

I prefer 14-2 or 3 for lighting, less worries with box fill.

 

[hillbilly1]

I prefer 14-2 or 3 for lighting, less worries with box fill.

I had that issue on a house many years ago. The owner was a Lowes project manager, and supplied all of the material. Had one box that had 5 three ways in a four gang box for exterior lighting and fans. They didn’t make a romex box deep enough, so I had to use super deep metal cut-in boxes ganged together. A lot of #12’s in that box! LOL!

 

[Joethemechanic]

When they come out with those 10 amp circuits for the 14 CCA, will they allow 16 copper?


1.5mm Twin and Earth Electrical Cable

 

[don_resqcapt19]

When they come out with those 10 amp circuits for the 14 CCA, will they allow 16 copper?

Unlikely do to physical strength and protection issues.

 

[Joethemechanic]

Unlikely do to physical strength and protection issues.

They use that 1.5 mm stuff in the UK on 240v circuits. Have the mechanical properties of it been a problem there?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

They use that 1.5 mm stuff in the UK on 240v circuits. Have the mechanical properties of it been a problem there?

The people over there tend to treat equipment much better than we do here

 

[Joethemechanic]

The people over there tend to treat equipment much better than we do here

I only checked tensile, copper is supposed to be roughly 40% stronger in tensile, but then I came across this that addresses the two conductors tensile.

The properties that need to be discussed are the tensile strength and thermal expansion of the conductors. Of particular concern is the ability of the conductor to withstand the forces resulting from short circuits and the effects of expansion from heat on joints and terminations. Reviewing the information in the table above, you can see that the aluminum conductor will have a cross sectional area 56% larger than copper for the same current carrying capability. Even though aluminum does have a lower tensile strength than copper it can be seen that the AL has, essentially, the same tensile strength of Cu for the same ampacity (50,000 lb/in2). The main area where this would be of concern as stated previously would be strength to withstand the forces during short circuits. Underwriters Laboratory (UL),

https://library.industrialsolutions.abb.com/publibrary/checkout/Alum-Copper?TNR=White%20Papers%7CAlum-Copper%7Cgeneric#:~:text=Even%20though%20aluminum%20does%20have,(50%2C000%20lb%2Fin2).

I didn't look into the shear strength yet. I don't really see the need for moment or torsion. Copper is also much more ductile than aluminum, and from experience copper seems less likely to work harden and fracture when subject to vibrations.

I love copper lol. Bought an Orange Crate Schwinn with money I got for the copper scrap I picked off my Grandfather's junk pile

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I only checked tensile, copper is supposed to be roughly 40% stronger in tensile, but then I came across this that addresses the two conductors tensile.

https://library.industrialsolutions.abb.com/publibrary/checkout/Alum-Copper?TNR=White%20Papers%7CAlum-Copper%7Cgeneric#:~:text=Even%20though%20aluminum%20does%20have,(50%2C000%20lb%2Fin2).

I didn't look into the shear strength yet. I don't really see the need for moment or torsion. Copper is also much more ductile than aluminum, and from experience copper seems less likely to work harden and fracture when subject to vibrations.

I love copper lol. Bought an Orange Crate Schwinn with money I got for the copper scrap I picked off my Grandfather's junk pile

So submit a Pubic Input to permit 16 AWG copper for general use. It has been permitted for specific applications for 2 or 3 code cycles.
The system is open for the submission of PIs for the 2026 code until 9/7/23. www.nfpa.org/70 and select "submit a public input for next edition".
However, if you are talking about NM cable, you will also have to get a change made to UL 719, "Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cables.", as the smallest copper conductor permitted by that product standard is 14 AWG.